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Posted By Paul Duell
The landlord of one of our shared buildings is proposing to hold a fire drill, with a smoke bomb being set off near one of the escape routes to add realism.
The local H&S rep has asked me about risks to asthmatics from the smoke, but I'm guessing a device designed for the purpose would be pretty low-risk? Anyone know about these things? Or anyone have any other comments about smoke bombs in fire drills?
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Posted By Glen Coe
We did this once, to force people out of routes that they did not use as normal access.
Firstly people ignored the smoke and pushed past the fire wardens.
Secondly the Disco smoke (we wanted to use something with minimal health effects rather than military style smoke bombs) we used, set off the smoke detectors before we were ready !
I would probably not do it again as people complained about visibility and risk of trips.
I suggest you just tape off the popular access routes, because we noted that people walk past fire escapes, because that is not their familiar route.
Hope this helps GC
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Posted By David c Wilson
Hi Paul,
I have also wanted to use smoke bombs in buildings to hasten evacuations but was warned off the idea in case of accidents / injuries!
It is a great shame that we cannot use resources to create a bit of realism nowadays.
I have consulted a colleague regarding the issue - he says the smoke must be purity checked and if you were to use smoke everyone should be made aware and it should be set off before the drill?
Good luck - I look forward to other peoples take on this issue?
David.
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Posted By Stupendous Man
Yes, use the smoke and no, do not tell anyone that you are going to do it otherwise there is no point.
One of the often forgotten benefits of using smoke is that you can learn valuable lessons about the way in which it moves and disperses through the building.
Is the smoke an unnecessary health risk to people such as asthmatics? I say not - it is a valuable exercise in determining whether your evacuation procedures allow you to deal effectively with people who have this condition. After all, they won't be able to avoid real smoke.
Just plan and take suitable precautions - have enough observers around who know what to do if an asthma sufferer experiences difficulties.
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Posted By Jimmy R
Paul,
By increasing the realism you will be injecting an additional hazard (smoke) into the evacuation drill, which some staff may have an adverse reaction too. In my dealings with our Fire and Rescue Service we have been informed not to use smoke as it is too risky, due to staff with breathing problems, flues, colds, nervous dispositions, disabilities etc. If you do go down this route then you will have to ascertain, as part of your risk assessment, which staff may be at an increased and possibly unacceptable risk. In my opinion not telling staff that smoke will be used is not an option as it will leave you wide open to staff being injured. As an analogy would you inject possibly dangerous fumes into a confined space when practicing evacuation drills from that confined space to make it more realistic!
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Posted By CFT
With SM all the way; yes have used it some years ago and yeeuck, I didn't realise what a mess it was going to make, it was to be fair supplied by the Brigade in a joint exercise, but it left an oily waxy dark deposit over the walls and ceilings.
As I say to fellow Directors frequently, I WILL NOT announce a fire drill, I have yet to find a fire or similar event that announced its arrival, as for the slip and trip hazard, why did it exist in the first place? Smoke will only prevent you from seeing it, so much better to have ensured it wasn't there before the smoke arrives.
CFT
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Posted By Sally
We just use a cone with a large sheet of paper with a picture of a fire on it and a senior member of staff to enforce that this is not a route that can be used.
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Posted By Jimmy R
I don't think anyone would suggest announcing a fire drill is to take place before it occurs but a risk assessment is still a prerequisite, days or even weeks before the event.
Sally, I've also used the picture of a fire, it gets the message across without increasing the risks to evacuating staff, visitors and contractors.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
When deciding to prevent an exit from being used to try and create realism you should only obstruct one exit on one floor. It is a fallacy to prevent a whole staircase from being used. Building regs and fire strategies are only ever designed around one exit from one floor being obstructed.
When planning fire drills I normally recommend one drill per year where everybody is notified of the date but not the time and one drill per year where it is unannounced.
To start the drill I normally randomly pick on a member of staff (including the CEO) and say to them 'you have discovered a fire please take the appropriate action as you have been trained'. Before doing this ensure that the fire brigade will not be called or the fire brigade are notified. Some fire brigades e.g. Cambridgeshire give feedback. The operator will tell you how many calls they have received. Other fire brigades e.g. London are totally useless and do not help at all. They will continue to send an attendance. That is their decision.
After you have reinforced to the member of staff that you have randomly picked on that they must treat the situation as real tell them you are starting the stopwatch. You can then assess how long it takes for that member of staff to raise the alarm and then to see how long after the alarm complete evacuation has taken. Your complete evacuation time will be from the moment you start your stopwatch.
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Posted By Stupendous Man
Shaun,
I'm interested - how is it a fallacy to prevent an entire staircase from being used?
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Stupendous Man - it is a fallacy to simulate a fire within a protected stair/route. The risk areas should not be within the stairwell they are going to be in the occupied spaces. This is why you only simultae the exit from one floor being obstructed by fire. If you try to simulate an entire stair being blocked then you will not be able to correctly assess the evacuation response. Stairs are designed to take a certain capacity during evacuation if you distort the capacity significantly you will slow the evacuation, may also increase the likelihood of injury due to overcrowding and have a distorted time for evacuation.
If the stairwell is a risk area then there is a failing in management. Protected stairs should not have sources of ignition or sources of fuel. Of course I am talking generally and am well aware that there are circumstances where what I have said do not apply, but for the majority of cases they do.
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Posted By Paul Duell
Thanks everyone for the many and varied responses - I can now draft my reply to my colleague.
Assuming they go ahead with the smoke bomb experiment (it'll be the building landlord's decision, not ours, although I hope they'll listen to our concerns), I'll let you all know the outcome.
Paul
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Posted By Colin Reeves
I start by saying that the circumstances in my industry are slightly different from the concerns that started this thread, but some comments may be of use.
On board a ship, the crew have to fight the fire as just walking away merely means that you have to evacuate to a lifeboat - a far less safe option than fighting the fire.
During drills, smoke is the only way in which to introduce the loss of spacial awareness caused by poor visibility. It is an essential training aid, as any fire officer will agree, when using BA sets to search an area for a casualty.
However, there will be loss of this in any actual fire, smoke does not just stop at a point where you have tape, is is an insiduous gradual reduction and can be confusing even in lighter concentrations.
One minor point, the smoke canisters I have used did not leave any residue - sometimes used in cabin accomodation!
Colin
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Posted By Jimmy R
Another method for fire fighting exercises on ship is to mask off the vision panel of the face mask, which acts as a barrier to good vision and the person monitoring the exercise is not affected.
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Posted By Colin Reeves
Agreed, used on normal weekly drills, but nothing like the real thing
Colin
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