Posted By Mike Craven
Hello

I am helping a neighbouring company to recruit a Safety Adviser and met earlier today with the Head of HR to look at questions for the interviewees. The Head of HR had already asked other people in our profession for help, and commented to me about how people had been so keen to rush to her aid, and how "generous and helpful you safety folk are"!

I'm sure that's a good thing; I have received and provided assistance via these forums and other groups in the past, and am always ready to share policies, procedures, checklists, presentations, etc - not that I'm suggesting that anything I've ever produced is any good!!!

However, I do wonder if we are too generous at times?

There was a request on this site, not too long ago, for a presentation on a certain H&S topic. I was going to send something to the person requesting the help, but the name seemed familiar - you tend to spot regular contributors to these forums.; most of them good and very knowledgeable, by the way. I had a quick look, using the exellent search facility.

The person in question has, over a period of time, asked for either a policy, procedure, training presentation, basic checklist or some information (that could easily be found by taking the time and effort to do a search via the internet) on DSE, Manual Handling, COSHH, Disability, PPE, Lone Working, Working at Height, Fire Risk Assessments, Fire Wardens, First Aid, Noise, Use of Contractors, Permits to Work, Confined Spaces, Occupational Health Assessments and more!! I understand that he/she is a consultant.

I spend a lot of time researching, trawling through textbooks, searching via the internet and actually take some pleasure and get a feeling of achievement when I produce a policy, procedure, training presentation, etc.

I have decided not to offer assistance - am I being a miserable old so and so who should "get a life" or, as I ask in my original question, "are we too generous" ??

Mike

Posted By Tarquin Farquor
John,

Could you send me copies of your LOLER and PUWER assessment templates please.

Regards,

TF

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Mike

Whilst I sympathise with your concerns I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Like yourself, I have freely given advice and documents via this forum, and on a few occasions I have asked for some assistance.

Two examples. First, a chap asked for some h&s documents for a 'third party.' Upon checking his email address I found it was a safety based company. Therefore I questioned why he is 'poaching' documents. The response was that he is a fire safety consultant. I then asked if he would like to reciprocate by sending me some fire related documents. He did, and they were top notch material.

Second case, was a lady who appealed for a mentor for a h&s course. I offered to help. However, she then responded by asking me to prepare an assignment for her. After careful consideration I decided not too.

The moral of the story is all folk are different.

Ray

Posted By Pete48
Dear Grumpy Old(?) Man,

I don't think we are anymore or less generous than any other profession. Try visiting some of the motor car sites (those aimed at specific models) for example and you will find a wealth of free info that often includes input from people obviously "in the trade" as well as the been there, done it, got the tee short people. They have saved me much anguish and money over time.
I think it was one of the international aid agencies who coined the tag "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to fish and you feed him for life". A good approach to many aspects of life I think.
Of course we all have our limits and I agree that I am influenced by; the way the questions are phrased, whether I recognise the poster, whether they have given as well as asked, whether the question can be sensibly answered on a public forum and sometimes whether I actually know anything about the subject :):):)

yours
an even older and grumpier old man!!

Posted By Glen Coe
It is a difficult question. People like to help ! but I agree there are three types who post:
1 the genuine HSE Person who is just a bit stuck in an unfamiliar area.
2 the developing HSE Person who is stuck and learning the trade.
3 the lazy person, who can't be bothered and probably should not be in that role anyway.

I would like to think those out there are mainly 1 & 2 s and this is the last chance saloon. So I would tend to help, but the profession does need to get smart and get the recognition it deserves.

But regarding the fish analagy, I find you someone a fish and they eat, teach them to fish and they sit on the bank and drink beer all day until they become your boss !

Posted By Colin Reeves
This forum is about helping people and is particularly relevant to someone who is out of their own comfort zone - a classic example being a question on flotation suits in a marine environment - not a standard answer as the legislation in this area is not touched on in any NEBOSH course.

However, I agree that using the forum in place of research, on a regular basis, is taking the P!

Colin

Posted By David Bannister
This is an interesting thread that raises a very important issue.

As a consultant I am expected to provide professional advice to address my clients problems. On occasion this will also require me to provide written materials. The materials are one of my "deliverables" and my reputation relies on the quality of all my deliverables.

I have both asked for and offered advice on these forums in the full knowledge that sharing our experiences and knowledge is ultimately of benefit to our profession. I have used the advice received to assist me in my work.

BUT... it is provided to my client as my advice for which I accept full responsibility for its being good advice. I only offer it if I believe it is correct and the onus is on me to distinguish between good and bad advice - that is what a professional practitioner does.

So far as written material is concerned, I have in my possession materials that have been prepared by others. I use them as a basis for my own stuff but would never, ever pass them off unchanged as my own work. That is plagiarism. Researching text books, websites and other reference sources is a perfectly legitimate activity, as is quoting source material, provided the source is acknowledged.

So, to any consultants out there who are using pirated, ripped off or stolen materials, shame on you for you do our profession a disservice.

To those consultants who seek clarification of uncertainties, are happy to learn from others experiences, are prepared to admit they don't have all the answers and are happy to share here, thank you for making this a great forum.