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#1 Posted : 28 September 2007 08:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rich T I have been looking at this on and off for weeks and am still not convinced my approach is OK. I need to get our in-house maintenance guys up to a height of about 7 meters to where our warehouse space heaters are installed. Previously we have used ladders (scary), bolt-on non-integrated cages on our FLT's (not really suitable - but safer than ladders) and a cherry picker - safer still than the cage, but not ideal. WHY? We have to get our guys to step off/out of the lifting equipment to get onto the working platform where the heaters are to perform both planned maintenance and ad-hoc corrective actions. Now the situation is difficult to understand without pictures but - these units are 7 meters above the warehouse floor, above areas of VNA racking, they are difficult to get at due to the supporting truss work of the building (meaning a scissor lift is out of the question as they are not maneuverable enough). Up till now - I have been allowing transfer between the platform and the lifting equipment on the basis that there is no other, reasonably practical, method of gaining access that seems safer. The only other way I can see of doing this more safely would be to spend many thousands of pounds creating a permanent access walkway at roof height (there are six of these all along the line of the warehouse). However, this is a leased building (with full repair and maintain clauses) and we have been doing this for 25 years without incident. Sorry about the waffle - but its not an easy one to explain. Is it (ever) justifiable to continue to step out of cherry pickers? Has anyone an example of more appropriate access equipment?
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#2 Posted : 28 September 2007 09:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kevin Drew Rich, A lot of people will tell you that this is strictly forbidden, however, this is not the case. BS 8460:2005 - the safe use of MEWPs, explains the circumstances in which this is permissible and actually provides guidance in annex B on safe systems of work for exiting a MEWP at height. Hope this helps. Kevin Drew
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#3 Posted : 28 September 2007 09:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rich T Thanks Kevin. Yeah - I have had that response too, many times. But I tend to treat that response along the same lines as "The HSE have banned ladders" suggestion. I have now got an extract of BS8460 (which I did not have up until now) which covers section 6.12 (Exiting the work platform at height) but not Annex B. So I'm going to have to tootle off to BSI and get a copy I think. Then I'll have to get my ducks in a row with regard to a SSOW. Many Thanks.
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#4 Posted : 28 September 2007 10:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Rich Without getting into this system of work completely, I can't quite imagine a couple of points you mention so bear with me please; what arrangements are in place for the protection of the workers once they exit the boom? I assume they utilise a twin tail SA lanyard system and have dedicated areas to clamp on to once they leave the basket? It is difficult to fully imagine but I feel certain they are not relying on the anchor points of the MEWP once they leave the safety of it. Again I must assume they are wearing conventional slide chuck restraints or possibly inertia's, either way the inherent difficulties in ensuring the job is as safe as possible utilising this particular methodology makes me extremely twitchy, and whilst I fully accept your predicament in terms of the lease, a. the landlord on vacation (if ever) may prefer to make a contribution to the barrier. b. whatever the cost it simply will not compare to the cost if a fatal incident were to occur. What platform are they on once they exit the MEWP and how close to the edge are they working? As you said in your post, it is not easy to fully explain, nor is it possible to see other alternatives without actually looking at the structure in question. Are the units Gas or Oil powered? CFT
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#5 Posted : 28 September 2007 10:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By AlB Good to see some sensible advice being handed out here rather than the swathes of "you can't do that" I was expecting! Rich, as has been said previously, you can, under certain circumstances, exit a MEWP provided there is adequate provision made for the safety of the persons exiting the MEWP. However, be careful that you don't fall into the trap of accepting this as normal practice on your site - if you need to access this location on a reasonably regular basis (every two or three months for example) then you may well have to think about permanent access. If you;re only talking about once every couple of years, then it can be argued in terms of cost vs benefit. AlB
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#6 Posted : 28 September 2007 11:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rich T To answer CFT - once workers have exited the MEWP, they are on a purpose built maintenance platform, completely surrounding the Powrmatic gas heater, gated, and providing a fenced-in safe working area. There is always the concern about dual restraint attachments whilst transferring to the platform, but they wear (short) work restraints, common for use on "cherry pickers". No restraint is necessary once they are on the platform, as it is fully gated and enclosed. We have estimated the costs of erecting a walkway as around £160K vs the costs of hiring a MEWP, training, etc. for about a weeks worth of access - once every 4 months or so? And on an ad-hoc emergency maintenance basis. 4 to 5 times per year at around 2 hours per incident? To answer AIB - this would be classified as Planned Maintenance activities, and it this aspect that has always made me a little uncomfortable. As a general comment on SFAIRP and ALARP - I would have accepted that spending £160k 25 years ago (or the equivalent thereof) would have been justified if I was going to get 25 years worth of access at lower risk than the alternatives. But this would be a hard sell today, given that we had had 25 years without incident. I can't imagine we are the only warehouse/building of this age, with this or similar issue.
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#7 Posted : 28 September 2007 17:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By GARYS Hi Rich I may be of some assistant if you still need help. E-mail me direct Gary
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#8 Posted : 28 September 2007 18:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By R Joe Would a custom made, removable, extended height three sided guard rail (ie open at the front of the MEWP platform) be an option thus doing away with the need for lanyards whilst transferring to the walkway? Or, alternatively, could the FLT cage be re-designed to have two inwardly opening gates at the front?
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#9 Posted : 28 September 2007 19:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Rich your concerns over TTL's not withstanding, as you have given a description of the plant area which seems to be more than safe for the operatives, what then is the problem with twin tails, one can be firmly attached in the MEWP and on the working area only releasing once safely behind the gated/fenced/barriered area; assuming of course there are appropriate anchor points on the work area. just a thought. CFT
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#10 Posted : 28 September 2007 19:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rich T Gary - you have email. R Joe and CFT: I quite like the idea of a custom built platform on a MEWP, which would make the actual transfer between MEWP and platform less risky. Failing that - a MEWP that already has an appropriate means of exit. I have arranged for a manufacturer of powered access "solutions" to visit our site and see what he can suggest. Otherwise I need a copy of that BS. So I'll be getting the ol' company credit card out next week.
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#11 Posted : 01 October 2007 16:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh Doh, may be I am being thick but why not use a scaffold or mobile scaffold to gain access? You could keep it in house, and train the same people to erect it.
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#12 Posted : 01 October 2007 17:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By safety medic First comment. What does your risk assessment contain or is this question posed as part of the risk assessment? Second. You are asking about access to a place of work. Why can a ladder not be used? Could a pull down ladder (similar to loft ladders) be installed? These can be vertical if they are enclosed I think. You dont need a split landing.
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#13 Posted : 01 October 2007 17:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By apjw why dont you put in place a permenant anchor point in the location of the heaters so that the operatives can safely clip their harnesess on to prior to exiting the cherry picker basket. as previously mentioned you could also use twin tailed lanyards. ensure that the selected anchor points are tested and approved as required.
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#14 Posted : 03 October 2007 08:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh Always remember that if you put people in harnesses & lanyards you need to be able to rescue them if they fall and are suspended.
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#15 Posted : 15 July 2009 18:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Clark Saw this thread below after looking for info on this subject. This is particularly interesting given the method of access onto the plinth in Trafalgar Square (cherry picker). It's all well and good looking at BS documents but its the publications by the HSE that are of interest to me and these are not particularly clear. I've also looked at others (MISC614, ACR[CP]002:2005, MoD JSP 375) and some say 'no' , some say that it 'should not normally be permitted'. With reference to the fabrication of a special platform - remember to apply the machinery directive. I have requested clarification from the HSE infoline but was told to get in touch with Westminster EHO - not the answer i was looking for as i would have liked a national enforcement view on this.
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#16 Posted : 15 July 2009 21:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By SNS Hi Rich, You have possibly considered this, but, are the heaters close enough above the racking to enable a method of climbing and traversing up the sides and along the top? I understand VNA racking to be Very Narrow Aisle but have not worked with that equipment. It is possible to now get small footprint scissorlift devices which could elevate the maintenance crew to a walkway fixed to the racking. Are there any mounting points above the 'gate' to the working platform to clip a lanyard onto for the transfer from the MEWP? Challenging problem but there is a wealth of good info from the earlier replies. As to the financial discussion of fixed access installation it may be worth having the debate with your local inspector to get their viewpoint, ours have been proactive and helpful, indicating solutions which other organisations have been able to use. Regards, S
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#17 Posted : 15 July 2009 21:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By SNS Amongst the things that I wished I read were the originating dates ..... What was your solution Rich .... if you are still there. Another thing I wish for is the ability to edit posts. S
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