Posted By Raymond Rapp Liam Forgive me for stating the obvious, but a MS is nothing more that an articulated Safe System of Work. Therefore the need for a SSoW is both implicit and explicit in many different kinds of h&s legislation. Also, I believe you will find reference to MS in construction orientated material, but I am not sure there is a 'legal requirement' to provide a MS, only a SSoW and Risk Assessment. Ray

Posted By Bruce Sutherland Liam I think you may find that ms originated from steel erection as a safe sequence of erection - there was a gs series note produced by HSE back in 1980's or early 90's. They were the construction industry version of safe systems of work HSW s2 stuff - it is interesting that they seem to have a ubiquitous use now which may reflect outsourcing or simply that they are more sexy..... well the ones we do are. In terms of law Control of Asbestos Regs has a requirement to produce and assessment and plan of work - must be written - CDM requires a written plan for demolition - LOLER requires a written plan for Tandem lifting - that is as far as my brain will stretch... cheers Bruce

Posted By garyh A couple of specific areas of law from which method statements arise:- 1) Health and Safety at Work act 1974 Sec 2(2)a - employer must provide a safe system of work. 2) Management of Health and Safety at Work Regs 1999 (implemented EC Framework Directive 89/391 and came into force on 1 January 1993) Regulation 3 of this rqeuires employer and self employed person to make a ‘suitable and sufficient’ assessment of risks to health and safety of employees and others affected by conduct of undertaking Where five or more employees significant findings of assessment to be recorded In both cases you end up with written SSOW / method statements / risk assessments etc as appropriate.

Posted By Ron Hunter UK CDM 2007 has specific requirement for any demolition work. Perhaps same in Ireland. Obvious inference that this should be applied to all/any high risk activity?

Posted By Liam Nolan CMIOSH Hi, Just a reminder for my original post - I am working in the UK at the moment and it is stuff specific to the UK I am looking for -I am ok on Irish stuff. Thanks again.

Posted By Liam Nolan CMIOSH Hi Ciaran, Thanks for the post, but I am specifically looking for info for the UK. I am aware of the Construction regs for Ireland (as I mentioned I am over here in the UK at the moment). The contractor will only look blankly at me if I try to show him Irish guidance. This is why I need UK stuff (which I would not be too well up on at the moment). I have also tried the ILO web site - but nothing that suits my purpose. I can find mention of MS's but they all assume that a method Statement is being done, nothing yet to say 'you must do' or 'it must be written down in a method Statement' if you follow me. Again thanks to all.

Posted By Liam Nolan CMIOSH hi, Great - I'll look that up. Regards,

Posted By YUSUF PANDOR Put it this way... the method statement tells one HOW it will be done. the "HOW" is very important because that's where all the necessary legislation/requirments have to be followed and adhered to - miss it out at your peril. Pandor Consultancy

Posted By Mike Draper There is no mention of method statements within UK law. The emphasis is on the development of a safe system of work. However I am aware of a description of method statements in HSE guidance. The following is an extract from HSG 150 Health and Safety in Construction (originally guidance for the Construction (HSW) Regulations 1996 but now, in the absence of anything new, guidance for Part 4 of CDM 2007) Method Statements 592 Method statements are not required by law, but they have proved to be an effective and practical management tool. They can take account of risks identified by the risk assessment and communicate the safe system of work to those undertaking it, especially for higher-risk complex or unusual work (eg steel and formwork erection, demolition or the use of hazardous substances). A method statement draws together the information compiled about the various hazards and the ways in which they are to be controlled for any particular job from the conclusions of the risk assessments. 593 A method statement also takes account of the company’s health and safety organisation and training procedures and may include arrangements to deal with serious or imminent danger. 594 The method statement describes in a logical sequence exactly how a job is to be carried out in a safe manner and without risks to health, and includes all the control measures. This will allow the job to be properly planned and resourced with the appropriate health and safety resources needed for it. It can also provide information for other contractors working at the site about any effects the work will have on them and help the principal contractor to develop an overall health and safety plan for the construction phase of a project (see paragraphs 616-618). 595 If a similar operation is repeated, the statement will be similar from job to job. However, if circumstances change markedly, eg with demolition, the statement will need to be revised for each job. 596 The method statement is an effective way of providing information to employees about how they expect the work to be carried out and the precautions that should be taken. The most effective health and safety method statements often have a number of diagrams to make it clear how work should be carried out. Checking that the working methods set out in the statement are actually put into practice on site can also be a useful monitoring tool. 597 When reviewing the risk assessments, use the information from monitoring previous jobs and accident records and investigations. It will help to decide if adequate precautions are being applied.

Posted By safety medic Liam, Have done a lot of work with our Principal Contractor (I'm with the Client) on method statment and risk assessments but put simply. As eveyone has eluded to MS are not required for law but are seen as good/best practice. Therefore the HSE would regard this as do it this way or do it better. The method statement should be short simple statement of what is to be done. i.e. Put nut onto bolt. The RA (the same in Lreland as in the rest of the UK!!) record the hazard. Often the two are intermingled together and becomes construction war and peace documents. As a client we insist that all work is covered by a RA and Method Statement. We dont stipulate why we ask for it - we just get it or the work doesnt take place.

Posted By safety medic Liam Empathise greatly with your position. At the end of the day the contract is the contract and if the PC does'nt do it then that is a contract/legal process arguement. As the HSE bod on the job then unless you can be provided with the aforementioned SSOW then the work doesn't go ahead. Full stop. As the client (customer and the one who is paying for it) we reserve the right to review all MS and also reject them but we cannot force the PC to write something, we can only suggest/comment. Many things are not legally required but as the client you can (and sometime must) insist on them to protect your employer and the employees of the PC/subcontractors. What I have stuggled with is getting the PC to outline their responsibilites within a MS when the subbie is conducting the works! i.e. Providing access, inspections of excavations, co-ordinating/associated works etc and provide this in a format whcih we can read and understand!

Posted By Liam Nolan CMIOSH Hi, Thanks for that. No problem I will email if needed - but we are getting places with them (the main contractor). This Job is very satisfying at the moment. I am enjoying just about every minute of every day. The sub-contractors safety advisors are extremely capable and very open to suggestions, and guidance (unofficially communicated to them :-) ). This is really the best site I have been on job wise. Regards,

Posted By Liam Nolan CMIOSH Hi, I agree, it is an accepted practice to generate and expect method statements (or what ever title you put on them). It seems that it is now at a stage where it is not specified in our contract documents (I would guess that the main contractor HAS got it in their contracts with the Sub Contractors). In our contract documents it is mentioned in such a way as to say that the MS 'all method statements and risk assessments must be explained to workers who carry out the task...' This is obvious to every one that a MS has to be generated in order to comply with this requirement. However the contractor has mentioned (floated the idea I would say) that MS are not required by the contract. Nonsense of course. The main contractor is trying to do as little as possible on paper as they think they can get away with (that ain't happening guys!). They also believe that they do not have to approve the MS submitted by their sub contractors. They make little or no comment on the submitted MS's (I do make comments to show commitment on the clients behalf and to show active involvment in the process - without taking responsibility for the work - not ducking the responsibility, because this is rightly the main contractors responsibility. At the end of the day the sub contractors have extremly good work method in place - they are just not writing it down. It is this bridge I want to get fixed. Thanks again,

Posted By Chris Cork A quick question for Liam, With respect, why are you asking people to do what is not required by law?? I would also question very carefully the competence of the employed contractors if you shall be loosing sleep. If we stuck to our guns as it seems your PC is doing and stuck to the job in hand problems would go away. The construction industry faught for a change in legislation, assisted in writing it and now appear to be fighting it. When I ask site managers the question How much time do you spend on site as a SITE manager? The reply is scary in general 10% the rest is dealing in the main with H & S paperwork. I do feel quite strongly about this as I have dealt with 2 fatal accidents niether of which could have been stopped by paper. Training and competence together with good supervision would have. The HSE have published a CDM PP presentation on their web site to download and on nearly all the slides it either states or implicates, manage the safety on site not the papaerwork. Once again I know I have got a bee in my bonnett and do not intend to insult or decry anyone. I just feel that things are getting out of hand and drifting yet again away from the regulations.