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Posted By Phillip
Most of us will, I am sure, be the recipient of negative comments about our profession. If like me you will think of a clever reply some 2 days late. So I am asking what standard responses do you use.
For example. I sometimes have the comment along the lines that this H&S stuff is nonsense 'cos we have never had an accident here. To which I sometimes reply 'The captain of the Titanic had a good safety record too until he hit an iceberg'
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Posted By David Bannister
When faced with a rather poor excuse for a safety system failing I have used the line "try telling that to a magistrate"
Similarly when told H&S is merely common sense my reply is "the trouble with common sense is that is not very common"
I also on one memorable occasion used the comment "don't be so ******* stupid" but that was at the end of a very long day.
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Posted By Pete48
ooh David, I know you really meant "silly and" stupid.
How about?
Safety IS boring; losing a finger or breaking a leg is much more exciting. Go ahead, try it if you really want to feel the excitement yourself.
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
MM? I can understand why most of you have some rather frustrating comennts about others who fail to understand what it is all about, but has anyone tried working in a safety focused company where everyone is working towards a safety position across an industry?
I work for a company in the title of which contains safety as a major part of its work activity. The company is very important to the industry in which it operates and is often the leading aspect of the industries safety efforts. It has generally one safety head in each member company and they are generally well focused which means that those who work in the company are also 'experts' easy you might think.
But and it is a big but, they all think they are experts, don't get me wrong, they are very good and very professional at what they do, but as far as occupational safety they sometimes leave a little to be desired in thier knowledge field. I won't argue on the content of thier knowledge provided itm is within thier field. But try and get them to understand the basics is sometimes a little harder than you would think. It's a bit more than leading them down the right road and soemtimes a bit like herding a flock of ducks in a straight line. So a retort is more of a 'MM thats interesting' comment followed by a bit of a smile which often leads to a 'so what have I misunderstood' comment back.
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Posted By Rob Randall
When faced with the old chestnut "we've been doing it like this for 20 years" I usually say well we used to send little boys up chimneys didn't we?
Regards,
Bob R
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Posted By Chris Packham
"How would you feel if you had to go and tell Mrs. X that her husband wouldn't be coming home tonight?"
It's worked for me
Chris
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Posted By Edward Shyer
When confronted with the old conker " Ive been doing this job for over 30 years" I respond with " well it must be safe because you are still here"
Just because someone does something for a long period does not mean it needs changing "Don't fix wot ain't broke?"
Regards
Ted
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Posted By Mark Duff
When told "I've done it this way hundreds of times and never had an accident" I usually reply "yes, and you might win the lottery but I know which I'm backing!"
Duffer
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Posted By Philip McAleenan
Is it possible that the profession is held in poor regard because of the assumptions that it makes about other workers, namely that they are not competent enough to work safely, or that safety can only come about through the “safety profession”.
Some of the retorts above would lead one to that conclusion. As per Edward, workers who do things hundreds of times without an accident may in actual fact be doing it the correct way. And likewise safety is boring, not because it is less exciting than a broken finger, but because it is generally separated out of the competence requirements of particular tasks and accompanied by admonishments, must do, mustn’t do, etc. without due regard to the fact that by abstracting the authority to make decisions about how he does a job, the worker’s competence is being negated, he is being neutered and ultimately alienated from what he does.
When safety, or the “safety profession” is subject to negative comments, listen intently to what is really being said, not just superficially to the words spoken. After all, safety people are not Promethean heroes bringing the fire to the world; it is already here, technologically and intellectually. So for your liver’s sake, instead of looking for a witty or snappy retorts, try to find and understand the problem that gave rise to the criticism in the first place and work with the critic to resolve it.
Philip
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Posted By Pete48
Phillip, erudition and context.
If you have yet to meet those to whom either is a mystery then you will one day. We are neither Promeathean heroes nor Philistines; we are human and ever so occasionally we need to act and respond in a truly human manner.
Of course such responses have to made in the context of the time, place and be relevant to the people involved but please do not dismiss them as being negative or somehow shallow. I can promise you that the one liner has saved as many injuries as any other ploy adopted to promote changes. For example, just having the ability to do it can gain respect for you as an individual and, therefore, improve your chance of success.
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Posted By Rob Randall
Must say that i have to agree with Pete48. We often only have a very limited time to influence people so that we can affect outcomes in a positive way. The well thought out one-liner is the phrase that will stay in the head of the hearer and reverberate the next time that he is tempted to use the grinder without eye protection, or to take some other needless "shortcut".
Regards,
Bob R
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
I think that sometimes safety does goes beyond the limit (whatever that may be) and therefore does turn some people off. The danger here is having 'switched off' they may not be too easy to switch on again. For example, someone grinding without ear defenders. Do you tell them to put them on, when they know full well they should be wearing them, or do you let it go on the basis they are not affecting anyone else and keeping one's powder dry for a more serious breach.
My own little bon mot when faced with someone who is complaining about health and safety impositions is a truism based my own experience: 'those who spurn health and safety are the first in the cue when it suits their purpose.'
Regards
Ray
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Posted By Phillip
I agree a light hearted quip can be a powerful tool.
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Posted By Healthy Debate
Yes, a cocky retort is a great way to win the hearts and minds of folk stuck in the dark ages.
Idiots.
Try levelling with people on a personal level and get to understand the core beliefs that make them feel the way they do.
Spending 5 min having an educated and engaging chat will produce better results than being the fool who thinks his smart response won the day.
Please, please try and do the profession a favour and be PROFESSIONAL!
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Posted By Edward Shyer
Well said Healthy Debate,
You can just picture it on the shop floor: "Hey up Bert what do you reckon to yon safety bloke has just broke his arm slipping down the office stairs apparently his mind was on something or other and wasn’t concentrating on what he was doing". "Eye Sid a don’t know what has happened to him lately he pulled me up yesterday about how I am doing my job then he came out with a Jim Davidson joke that was about 30 years old and wasn’t funny the first time round". "Then the silly so n so started going on about history in the workplace and how we used to send kids up chimneys n that but we don’t do it now". Well its obvious that we don’t in it everybody has gas fires and the chimneys don’t need cleaning.
It is all fair and well having one liner responses but not everyone can carry it out well. So by doing this you may actually aggravate the situation.
To the man who is grinding without PPE just a simple “you know you should be wearing your goggle/ear defenders don’t you so could you please use them” goes a long way to getting co-operation.
Regards
Ted
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Posted By Pete48
And equally, the patronising "suit" who is well versed in stating the obvious can have the same effect.
Context, context , context.
If you are not comfortable doing it, then don't do it. But please do not suggest it is unprofessional.
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
It is a case of 'different strokes for different folks.' Nothing to do with being unprofessional, thank you.
Ray
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Posted By Steve
So what are you saying? Do I have to let my Chimney Sweep go?
I'll have to put the little rascal to work scraping the limescale off the asbestos boiler.
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Posted By GARRY WIZZ
We are too safe. Even the goverment and the HSE have concluded that we are going to far down the road of eliminating risk. I noted on the news over the weekend another report that concluded we are damaging our children because of our reactions to risk.I don't trust the experts or the media in general but I think it s fair to say, I and my three sons had more practicle fun / problems than a lot of kids to-day
You reap what you sow, I just go along with the comments,we as an industry created the problem, keep my powder dry. I have to earn the respect of the employees by practicle solutions to risk.
We have a construction site with no traffic. Should we wear a yellow vest?They do not need to wear them on my site.However it would seem to be mandatory in many hazard free locations that
hence no short term answers but over the long term, If the employee concludes that H&S outside of work is a load of rubbish but garry is doing a fair job, the comments dry up.
Currently I have some way to go in creating a positive attitude to H&S.I normaly reply to Dumb comments with an equaly dumb answer that is not printable on this page.
garry
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Posted By Paul Duell
**To the man who is grinding without PPE just a simple “you know you should be wearing your goggle/ear defenders don’t you so could you please use them” goes a long way to getting co-operation.**
And better still, asking WHY he's not wearing it can teach volumes about root causes.
But back to the OP - my experience is that most of the people who make jokes about H&S know deep down that basic safety precautions are the right way to go - for them, a jokey riposte properly done can be the right way ro go. It proves we're not all humourless robots - although sadly there are a few of them in the profession.
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
It's horses for courses; most of us will know when to wave the big stick and when to be flippant. That is what experience is for.
Paul
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Posted By Tabs
Steve, your sweep can stay - but save him for the right audience might be the message.
Anyone who sees you as a "suit" will not see the point, someone who knows you to care about your job might well see it.
I am lucky, I have been able to shed the suit :-)
I tend not to use one-liners, I prefer to use the approach of productivity, quality and family (humanistic) values. Being a socialist, it is easy to tell someone that I wouldn't be doing it 'that way' just so the bosses can make more money ;-)
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Posted By Heather Collins
In response to "Healthy Debate", your comment "idiots" isn't a cocky retort or unprofessional response then? Try to practice what you preach.
I agree that this is absolutely about horses for courses. Some people respond better to a bit of a joke and some light-hearted banter, others simply need to be told what to do and why.
Part of being a safety professional is to know which response to use under which circumstances. Not cocky, just appropriate.
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Posted By Saz G
How about remembering that you (I daren't use the term 'we') are employed to assist in ensuring that fellow HUMAN beings return home to their families, uninjured after a day at work? If more people on here spent their time doing just that instead of listing their hard earned, deserved (?) competency credentials and trying to diss those without them, we might all feel a little more accomplished and fulfilled and might not receive such negative press, both internally and professionally.
I personally do not wear a suit, nor will I talk down to an extrusion operator who has worked safely on the same machine for 15 years, just because he/she does not boast a string of clearly (in some cases witnessed on here) meaningless letters after their name, but I do pride myself in being able to influence the way people behave at work by treating them with a bit of respect, something sorely lacking in this forum.
I was told at the beginning of my career that knowing my limitations would be my greatest strength. I still stand by that and have much more to learn (I hope), I am just disappointed that it won't be from most of my peers in this forum.
"Better to remain silent and look a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt." - the name escapes me, the message; CLEAR.
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Posted By Rob Randall
Saz G,
Maybe you are being a tiny bit paranoid. People are entitled to use designatory letters if they wish and the fact that some do doesn't mean they are looking down on anybody. If I may say so you are making the classic mistake of believing that you know what other people are thinking. They may not be thinking what you think they are thinking.
I personally haven't noticed any disrespect of lesser qualified / experienced people on this forum. I rarely use my designatory letters except in professional correspondence but even if I did it would not be to boast about my competence.
Respect is not a metter of wearing, or not wearing, a suit but of personal attitude. I usually adopt the maxim that it is better to think others better than yourself.
Incidentally I think the negative press is more to do with lazy journalism and sensationalism than anything that we say on this forum. The press probably don't read it anyway.
I do however agree that one should never talk down to anybody. I think that the superiority complex that some people have is perhaps a mask for insecurity. One can only influence safety at work by working with people and getting them to buy into control measures. One cannot do this by adopting a superior attitude.
Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.
Job 12:12 Wisdom is with aged men, And with length of days, understanding.
Regards,
Bob R
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Posted By Karen Todd
Workforce sitting in works canteen. Foreman says to swarthy young guy looking a bit red, "Have you been tacking without your mask on? I've told you about that before". Cocky young guy, "That's my Christmas tan". My response, "There's only meant to be 1 roast turkey at Christmas"...cue much laughter from the rest of the workforce.
KT
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