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Posted By Johno
Hi,
In our office block, we have a number of inner rooms, mainly occupied either occasionally or by one staff member.
Some of these rooms contain a store or a WC which are inner rooms in an inner room.
The guidance states that people should not have to pass through 2 rooms to escape the building. Is it acceptable to do this with the room only being a WC?
Thanks
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Posted By GT
Johno,
if someone is using the loo, and naturally locks the door and matters become protracted how do you or anyone get out.
No jokes please!!
Gt
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Posted By Johno
That is what I thought but surely many WCs are inner rooms, I have not seen many with vision panels yet. I suppose a sign stating "Short visits only" could work :)
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Posted By Ian_P
When is a room a room?!!!
We had the same issue with our new build and shower rooms / toilets within an inner locker room. The visiting fire officer did not regard these as inner 'rooms' due to the fact that only one person (hopefully!) would be using them at any one time for short periods of time (debatable!!)
Your absolutely right, the guidance is not that clear on this subject, and does not seem to cover WC's as being rooms, however your Fire Risk Assessment should determine it acceptable if:
-The risk is reduced by having adequate fire detection and alarms in the 'outer' room.
-Only one person is using the W.C.! (the guidance says no more than 60 people should use inner rooms.......!!!)
-There is a gap at the top of the toilet wall / door so that people can become alerted to smoke.
-The outer room is not of high risk (this is why it is so important that toilets are not used as a cleaners store for chemicals!)
Ian
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Posted By Johno
Well, the inner rooms are only used by 1-2 people and are low risk, private offices, no portable heater policy. We dont have a fire alarm but the fire doors are in good order and the escape distances are good. There are no gaps above the toilets as they are totally enclosed rooms (also with fire doors). We also have a "one user per toilet at any one time" policy.
Thanks
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Hi everyone,
Just to reiterate a previous comment, where you have toilets with inner doors as long as the toilet is fitted with an alarm sounder you areOk due mainly to the short use of the romm and the relatively low number of persons who will be there. It's a matter of risk levels, I don't know anyone who stays there for very long.
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Posted By Johno
so for the purposes of identifying inner rooms or inner inner rooms, I can just discount WCs.
The fire alarm audibility is a different issue in my case though.
Thanks everyione!
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Posted By pat merchant
Johno
Whats an inner room? is it an office,toilet,store room or shower?
My understanding is that it is an area that is occupied for work,living,eating or rest.
Most areas such as offices etc have to be accessed by a door leading to a corridor for means of fire escape or have more than one escape such as an outer door. showers and toilets on the other hand usually are rooms within rooms within office blocks.
Legislation usually is for new builds and does not expect you to alter you building but does expect you to take into account fire regs such as emergency lighting and alarm sounders.
Any new buids and you will have to consider such things as disabilities regs,any new fire regs etc. It is good practice to design new builds to take into account all of the issues and abide by the regs even if planning permission is not required
Pat
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Posted By GT
Johno, Sorry misread your original thread.
Rooms are defined under building regs and are usually habitable areas cupboards,WC's etc are not deemed to be habitable, perhaps occupied for short durations by one,two or more people.
An inner room is a room which can only be accessed through another outer room.
I had this vision of the outer room being the WC which on the second reading is not the case.
Sorry for any confusion.
GT
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Posted By Johno
Hi,
Yeah, the WC is inside the inner room. I suspected that they didnt count as rooms as they arent occupied. I am just having difficulty justifying the offices when we have no automatic fire alarm that can be heard inside the offices. Especially as they are a confusing layout.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Posted By GT
Johno,
Does your risk assessment indicate that a fire warning sytem is required?
GT
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Posted By Johno
it does, I dont want to go into detail though where the company can be identified.
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Posted By GT
Johno,
There is a way around your concerns and please don't disclose your company as it would not be of an advantage to any of us.
Regards
GT
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Posted By Johno
I have realised that I can hide my email address after I made that post.
What were you thinking of?
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