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Posted By DJ
Have I totally lost the plot here?
I have just come across an IOSH Managing Safely test/exam question which states:
"List the six steps of carrying out a risk assessment."
I have just checked the HSE website and it is still raving about the '5 steps to risk assessment'.
Have I been buried in my law books for too long and missed something fundamental here?
Any assistance greatly received.
Regards.
DJ
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Posted By Edward Shyer
the plot is not lost
Step 1
Identify the hazards
Step 2
Decide who might be harmed and how
Step 3
Evaluate the risks and decide on precautions
Step 4
Record your findings and implement them
Step 5
Review your assessment and update if necessary
step 6
Monitor
Regards
Ted
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Posted By Nick Higginson
DJ
No, you have not the lost plot (but maybe IOSH have).
This is indeed the case - HSE 5 steps to risk assessment (Identify hazards, Decide who is at harm, Evaluate the risk, Record, Review) and IOSH 6 steps to RA (List work tasks, identify risks, estimate, evaluate, record, review).
No-one at IOSH seems to be able to offer a reasonable explanation why they decided to list different steps to the ACOP and Guidance from HSE, or why they used the terms Likelihood and Consequence (rather than Severity which is used in the ACOP).
It has made my job more difficult - especially for candidates that progress to NEBOSH courses and have to then be taught something slightly different.
Ask IOSH the question, as I was told I was the only person ever to have raised it as an issue.
Kind regards
Nick
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Posted By CFT
Can't see the problem really? if the 5 steps suits one but the other wants to include 6 what is wrong?
Depending on what I am RA'ing there may be more than 6 steps, it's not set in stone unless the question is asking "how many steps in the HSE RA, " then 5 is the answer; why create a problem when one never existed?
CFT
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Posted By Chris Packham
Can I agree with CFT. When attempting a risk assessment for exposure of the skin to chemicals, my steps are:
1. Identify and describe task
2. Identify hazard of chemical(s) as used. Note that this is seldom the same as the hazard as stated on the safety data sheet. We mix, dilute, heat, contaminate, react chemicals, so the properties of what we are handling can be quite different from those of the chemicals which we have brought into the workplace.
3. Assess from description of task the probability of exposure
4. From 2 and 3 assess the potential and severity of an adverse health effect
5. Decide from 4 what control measures need to be implemented
6. Implement
7. Repeat 1 - 4 to ensure that adequate control (as required by COSHH) in being ensured
8. Set up review procedure to ensure that adequate control is maintained and that any changes are identified and dealt with.
Note that this is for a dermal exposure to chemicals risk assessment. RA for accidents etc. may well be different.
Chris
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Posted By Nick Higginson
Yes, your steps are obviously fine as your are both professionals.
However, when students are new to Health & Safety and trying to retain lots of information they need something specific to learn.
The marking schemes will not be based on what is done in your workplace.
Kind regards
Nick
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Posted By CFT
Completely agree with you Nick! Taking an exam and the work place are two completely different issues though, for exam purposes depending on what level, an opportunity to expand on the answer is always an option.
All the best
CFT
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Posted By Brian Welch
Nick,
I think perhaps you maybe closer to the truth in your comments. If we think simply about target audiences the HSE is promoting safety to all levels, whereas IOSH is more focused on the development and continuous improvement of safety professionals.
Brian
(H&S should not be complicated)
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Posted By Pete Longworth
The problem here is that all the accepted sources of info eg HSE's 5 Steps to Risk Assessment specify 5 steps ie identify hazards, who can be harmed, evaluate the risk, record, review. Now we all may do risk assessments in different ways with different steps but for IOSH to ask for an extra step in a question means that the student has to guess what the final step is and hope that it is in the marking scheme. That is not a professional way to run an examination. Examination questions should deal with certainties not guesswork
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Like Chris I use 8 steps as it helps to ensure that the learned operatives and managers writing them can easily follow the route. It is called an idiots guide
Bob :-)
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Posted By CFT
Pete
Just one element there to argue with; one would assume that if the teaching of the course includes 6 steps, then the student (if they were listening) will know what the 6 steps are for 'this' particular course and not be placed in a position of having to guess during any exam!
Charley
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Posted By Pete Longworth
Fair comment
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Posted By Adrian Watson
As an aside, and as a pedant HSE's "five steps to risk assessment", are not five steps to risk assessment but five steps to risk management!
What I see as a real problem is where you learn something for training and something else for real life. Both should be the same.
The risk assessment process is simple; ask:
(1) How can somebody be killed, injured or made ill or infirm?
(2) What do I have to do to prevent it happening; and What do I have to do to reduce the severity of injury, illness or infirmity if it does occur?
The risk management process is also simple;
Do it and check that it works;
If it doesn't do something else!
Everything else is covering your back.
Regards Adrian
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