Posted By Lee Mac Hi All, As we all know the Designers RAs are now not required by the current CDM Regs. I understand Designers are now to detail the elimination of hazards and risks reduced associated with the design process on the actual drawings. So far the drawings that I have inspected are basically addressing windows and window cleaning and not much more. Would anyone forward a good example of drawings eliminating hazards/risk reduction. Many Thanks, Lee

Posted By Ian G Hutchings Lee Even though it may not expressely state that a RA is necessary. I advise design clients to go through the RA process as good practice. How else can they demonstrate that they have thought through the impact of their design? I consider this to provide due diligence and a clear aid to design decision making. Even better, when practical, is to facilitate a joint hazard ID session with the project teams involved - design, project management, client and principal contractor. I am interested to know what others think. Cheers Ian

Posted By Lee Mac Ian, I fully agree that a meeting of minds would be an ideal way to go forward. However, in reality this rarely occurs. In my experience the Designer RAs that I previously looked at were regurgitated with the only exception being that the project title was changed. I feel if risk elimination/reduction is written on the drawing, there is no clearer message to the reader, the only thing is I have yet to see it being applied fully. Lee

Posted By Robert K Lewis Whatever the acop may say or not say I would still hold that notes on drawings can only ever show what the designer finally decided to do - It cannot show what has gone on in the process to arrive at the solution set out in the note. The CDM design duty cannot thus be fulfilled by drawing notes only. I want to know why for instance self cleaning glass was rejected in favour of cherry pickers for window cleaning. I have been through this exercise recently with an inspector and a designer - he wanted to understand the thinking behind their choices. As CFT and I have exchanged views previously it can be too easy sometimes for designers simply to install say a mansafe without considering other options . They have a belief that if the HSE accept it in one place they can use it in any other place and it is a safe means of work. Bob

Posted By Ron Hunter There were also some good links on HSE. I recall drawings for a supermarket and other Projects, perhpas within an "e-learning" section of the HSE site, but can't find it now. My links are broken. Can anyone else help?

Posted By Lee Mac Regarding appointing of Designers- I have used a questionnaire similar to the one on the CHAS website. However, with all due respect it is not very indepth in its questioning. Is there anyone out there with a decent quetionnaire that wouldn't mind sharing. If so please email me using the link above. Thanks Lee

Posted By David G C Designers risk assessment - i believe that a project risk register is a useful management tool if you can persuade the design team to buy into it - this provides a systematic approach for the consideration of health and safety issues as an integral part of the design process and ensures that significant issues are given the highest priority for all stages of construction projects. indeed for the identification and elimination/reduction of significant hazards and remaining risks associated with the design aspects of the project. A risk register creates a single document where all significant design hazards /risks can be identified, collated, monitored and ultimately eliminated as part of the design process. At the end of the design process, the register provides an audit trail of design decisions made by the team. One reason for the formal preparation of a design risk register is the underlying truth that, if each party do not identify the potential significant risks to a project, they cannot possibly plan how to prevent them occurring or mitigate their consequences. i would be happy to share my own prepared proforma with forum members which i consider works very well once implemented and breaks down the barriers between the design team. Apologies to lee mac for hijacking this thread regards

Posted By Robert K Lewis Jason The old HSE RAG lists were a good basis to start but they suffered from being from being divorced from the way designers think. The work element breakdown is a good concept in the CIRIA guides and I have established RAG lists of design solutions using these. Designers are actually good at putting these things into effect. The art is to get them to start at the "safest point" and work outwards to the final solution. eg: Best solution for a flat roof with possible plant located? The green solutions would involve such as: Re-locate plant Install rails Amber: Locate mansafe at least 3m from edge with clip on point accessible from access point. Red Access roof by cherry picker and clip onto mansafe I think you can see the picture. Each colour would require progressively stronger assessment to justify the choice. Just needs some time which many of us do not have. Bob

Posted By Lee Mac David, I too would appreciate it if you forwarded a copy to me. Bob, This appears to be a extremely effective method without being complex- would it be possible to have a view of this in action for a project. Thanks, Lee

Posted By Jonathan Breeze David, You can do this by going to the "update my details" section (top left of page) and clicking the "make e-mail address viewable to others" option. This will make the e-mail address viewable to logged in posters. At present no one can see it.

Posted By JasonGould That is a great idea Bob. Like you I was thinking about the working outwards part but wanted something set up so it self generates either an RA/thought process or certificate as well as making it easier for a CDMC to pull together in the pre construction information. That will be the key for people of external organisations to buy into it e.g. it assists in their own work. Now the problem is and will be = getting external designers to use a external tool not of their own company's making. It will not wash for many as they will either be too specialised or too stuck in their ways. What ever anyone creates, they have to try and sell it to some naturally defensive and unwilling people. The backup part of any creation should at least enable CDMCs (especially those whom are farly new like me) to quickly identify examples of good and bad practice for various aspects of a project. Take away the trivial and include the relevant parts of the workplace etc. At the moment I make sure I do some homework and can usually talk this through in a design meeting etc however most of this does not get recorded etc hence a good risk register is vital importance. We do not get paid for the homework part thus anything that makes it easier is better thus those guides are ok for me. I want something that is pretty solid so others can easily understand on where attention should and should not be focused. From what I am seeing, this need not be too extensive as long as it helps guide those to whom it affects. We are not talking mega software packages as they have limits and will never cover everything thus a commercial package is of no use. Likewise, if I did a briefing on civil design last week I would be dammed if I could do it of the top of my head this week so easy reference is essential. Now back to that time aspect of actually putting something together.

Posted By GT Andrew, On your first point, designers are to avoid foreseeable risks; in addition they are obliged to eliminate hazards which may give rise to risks and reduce risks from any remaining hazards. I think Bob Lewis has a very good idea using the traffic light scheme to assess and minimise the hazards. However, whilst there is no written requirement for a RA what Bob suggests would be a commencement of the same and in the designers interest to have a RA for each part, phase or aspect of the project. GT