Posted By srd I want our company to implement the OHSAS 18001 standard. To keep costs down I would like to work through the process myself as opposed to getting in a consultant. To calculate the savings of doing it myself, can anyone give me a rough idea of how much a consultant would charge to help us get a system in place up to, BUT NOT INCLUDING, the auditing and certification stages? Stephen.

Posted By Gerry Marchant Stephen...i'm just implementing 14001 (same principles as 18001) and the cost so far is my time...we started 6 months ago and looking at cert. in mar 08 consultant would of cost me 5k with less headache...deoends how far you want to go Gerry

Posted By AF I would be wary at taking consultancy costs at face value. Any person who understands exactly what is involved in the development, implementation & coordination of any management system, knows exactly that costs are not restricted just to that of consultancies. Take, on average - Accreditation fees (depends on size of company/nature of business) will vary on number of man-days used (average 6 - 9 days at implementation for medium sized organisation) at around £600 - £700 per man-day Training costs will vary - not just a simple factor of doing an auditor course for yourself, as you require to be independent of the area to be audited, again minimum 2 auditors trained at average £800 - £1000 for a 3 day course If you use a consultancy, try on average 10 - 15 days work at average £300 - 500 per day Then you have the costs required for implementing corrective actions, to meet the standard - ie PPE, Engineering Controls, Specialised Assessments, etc, etc - Over and above this, once certification has been achieved, then you have annual surveillance fees, annual certification management fees, etc Whole lot more than £5K??? Try around minimum £12 - 14K on average With ISO 14001, there is business support grants available (in Scotland) to absorb up to 50% of that, but nothing for OHSAS 18001. Dont just look at what is in front of you, there are a whole lot of other costs you require to look at also. Plus of course there is your time and effort also, as well as key members of your management team - it is virtually impossible to do unless you have the support of others.

Posted By Bob Youel Does attending a course make you competent or am I missing something! As for DIY: It's a great idea in many ways - However the course costs will have to be doubled at least as for every moment you are not doing your day job you are costing the company £ so that loss has to be added to the course etc costs Yes we should stretch ourselves and undertake a course but also pick the brains of the consultant at the same time; so do both if you can

Posted By Robert K Lewis Picking up on Bob Ys posting. Unless you have had previous experience of setting up ISO systems then I thnk you will find consultancies far more efficient in practice especially if you have a shortish time scale, ie 6 months. From my position I tend to encourage companies to consider at least partial consultancy support Costs can always be saved by utilising exisiting procedures, modified to meet the specific needs. As you already have auditors I presume that you also have 9001 and/or 14001 so the steps to make change are not that great. Please ensure that you cross reference back when you share procedures etc. A good consultant will advise you on this. Bob

Posted By Bob Youel Please do not lose site of the fact that where a system may pass an audit an improvement notice can still be issued as auditors are not enforcers! I have attended audits where the parameters of the audit met the reality situation on site however both did not allow full compliance to law After experience of QA systems since ~1969 I note that such systems can be set up to pass audits and yet still fail to comply with the law so managers get into a false safety zone and think that these systems are the answer to all their manging problems when that is not always the case

Posted By srd Thanks for all of your responses so far. I am considering embarking on the distance learning BSI Certificate In Occupational H&S Management Systems in my own time, if the company will fork out for it. I accept that working towards implementing 18001 will make serious demands on my time and that of others. I am more concerned with making the company a safer place in which to work, than simply to put in place systems whose sole purpose is to pass the 'test'. Stephen.

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith AF, Have you got confused between the terms certification and accreditation?

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith Alex, What do you mean by the "big five"?

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith Alex, As far as I am aware, (for ISO 9001 and 14001 purposes), in the UK there is only one accreditation body. If you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/...ted_Certification_Bodies and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9001 this may help clarify the difference between accreditation and certification.

Posted By Merv Newman Coming a bit late to this thread and immediately declaring my interest, I'm a consultant. (but you knew that, didn't you ?) We don't do H&S certification/accreditation but do on quality and environment. But we do guide clients (no, we are NOT looking for any more business at the moment. Thank you) towards complying with the standard(s) and I have put that in plural because there are more than OHSAS 18001 and HSG65 out there. Some larger companies even have their own standards. To answer one point, part of the initial audit is to question how the H&S people stay up-to-date on legislation and best practice. And then to spot-check that they do. (no-one is going to pay you enough days to make sure they comply with everything) (a life's work !) Next point : training course or consultant ? Go for a decent (not a cheap) consultant. We normally have experienced a number or different companies, industries and cultures. And we have all sorts of really wicked tricks for getting managers to do what they should be doing. And, coming from outside of the company, we usually have more clout than the poor H&S person (training course/diploma notwithstanding) I have just got back today from a visit to a site where the H&S person was totally hostile to the idea of a consultant being imposed on her. A year or so later she buys the coffee and offers the roll-up makings. Finally : Price. Good consultants are not cheap. (I reckon I'm a good one and I know I am not cheap) and there are a lot of factors which tell me that £250 a day is very cheap indeed. I can list them if you like. You gets what you pays for. (but I would say that wouldn't I ?) Trust me. I'm a consultant. Merv Friday note for the Minotaurs : THIS IS REALLY NOT A COMMERCIAL MESSAGE. WE ARE NOT, REPEAT NOT, LOOKING FOR MORE BUSINESS IN THE UK. ENOUGH ALL READY ! And would I breach the AUG ? Nah.