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Posted By G M
If you are going out to tender for a contract and each tender company is given scope to offer alternative solutions (designs) for the work, should they all be appointed as designers under CDM 2007 even though only one will be successful.
I appreciate that it is not a big issue, but any thoughts would be gratefully received
Thanks.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
CDM duties apply to any designer preparing a design, but these duties "stand alone", i.e. you do not have to make appointment for the CDM duty to apply to them.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Concept architects are most certainly designers under CDM. Arguably it is at this stage that assessing and planning design risk management is the most critical.
It is considerably more difficult to change the overall design after this phase!
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
GM
I am not sure what you are asking here. Are you asking:
a) All the tenderers have been given a concept scheme and asked to provide design solutions against it
or
b) The designers have put forward a solution in the tender and the contractor is must respond to the design as stated and/or is able to provide other alternate solutions
During tender neither a or b situations have a strict designer duty until the tender is accepted. In situation (a) this could be a process to select a competent lead designer for final design. Situation (b) is not uncommon and is often associated with M&E services. The contractor has no design reponsibilites during the project unless his designs are taken up at which point he has formal designer duties.
Situation (a) provides a lead designer. Situation (b) provides a subsidiary designer with a co-ordination and co-operation role with the lead designer.
Bob
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Robert - I fear you may be clouding the issue here. Surely Regulation 11 duties apply to Designers irrespective of the status of the Project?
G M: If the designer is outwith UK, you (your employer) will most likely ultimately be responsible for ensuring these Regulation 11 (CDM) duties are complied with, after appointment.
G M: The answer to your question remains the same - you do not have to make CDM appointments at tender stage!
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Ron
Have to disagree as responses to a design solution at tender with potential alternative solutions does not make the tenderer a designer until they win the tender and then commence design. These responses are often conceptual and may be rejected at contract award. Mind you only foolish contractors offer solutions that they do not know will work.
Similarly a client may place a concept out to a range of designers for their possible solutions and then select what he feels best. Once appointed the designer is then subject to CDM. This is often the case with design build projects.
I take the attitude that a designer cannot exist in relation to a specific project until they have been appointed to the project activity itself. It is a difficult point sometimes though. I think the HSE will want to await an appointment. It is only at this point that a design and a project come into exisitence - you cannot have duties for a project for which you do not yet have any responsibility, ie you are not appointed.
Bob
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Posted By G M
Thanks all for the help, I am now clearer on the distinction between designing & tendering.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Robert K: Sorry, looks like you and I will have to agree to disagree on this point.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
I forgot to add paragraph 121 of the CDM ACoP as my reference. "These duties (on Designers) apply whenever designs are prepared which may be used in construction work in Great Britain. This includes concept design, competitions....and relevant work carried out for feasibility studies."
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