Posted By Jeff Manion
The location is built and occupied?

Therefore review what you have - it is understood about travel distances, if you have the location in operation, you may be limited in alterations or conversions or costs.

Consider what you have and how you could improve.

Management actions, plans, directions, training, awareness, signage.

First thing first though consider where can you control the ignition source or deal with the ignition source, then deal with the rest.

JM

Posted By Jeff Manion
Smoke from where?

If suitable fire doors with seals should be minial risk and escape possible.

In accomodation recommnend that each dwelling has detector fitted and maintained.

Appint one or more competent persons & responsible persons to assist in carrying out any preventative or protective measures required.

Provide employees and others with relevant information on risks identified and what is being done about them.

Provide the parents of any young person you intend to employ with details of any risks identified in the risk assessment that may affect them - if relevant.

Inform contract works of any risks relevant to them.

Co-operate with any other responsible persons having premises within the building.

Inform the employers of outside workers of any risks relevant to their employees and the preventative and protective measures taken.

Consider the presence of any dangerous substances and the risk they present to relevant persons.

Establish suitable means of contacting the emergency services and provide them with relevant information about dangerous substances
if relevant.

Provide appropriate information, instruction and training to employees during working hours about the fire precautions.

•Provide appropriate information, instruction and training to employees during non working hours about the fire precautions in the workplace.

JM

Posted By David
Hello Geoff
Thanks for your response,
Within Sleeping Accomodation page 99, states; that for four storey and above the following should apply.
-The upper floors should each accommodate no more than 60 people.
-Access to stairway from any room is through two fire doors, other than the top floor. This can be achieved by using protected corridors or by the use of lobbies.
- The corridors serving bedrooms in sleeping areas and stairwell are protected 30 minute fire-resisting construction and all doors leading onto escape routes are self-closing.
_ The farthest point on all floors to the corridor/exit is within the overall travel suggested distances.

In essence to the sleeping accommodation this can not be achieved.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this please.

Dave

Posted By David
Hello Adrian

I thank you for your response, however, i disagree with you on the sleeping accommodation guide. It clearly states within the guide, the common areas of flats.It also states at the bottom of the guide, that HMOs and flat's are covered by two pieces of legislation, the Order and the Housing Act 2004.

Even Document B April 2002 backs up all that is within the Order.
Look forward to a response.

Dave

Posted By Ashley Wood
Dave, Ideally any building over 3 floors should have a secondary means of escape. f that is not possible then the escape routes must be protected. I have assessed many hundreds of these types of risks and as long as the flat doors are fire resistant to FD30 (that means NO letter boxes, holes etc, have cold smoke seals and fire strips fitted, door closers, 3 hinges (fire tested type), smoke detection installed in stairway (BS5839 Pt6 as a minimum), emergency lighting, signs etc you will comply. Fire extinguishers are to be placed on each landing unless you can prove that they can be used as a weapon, to smash down a door or are likely to be constantly vandalized. If you can prove these points the fire service are happy for them not to be placed (they would rather you get out of the building).

On the door subject, if a letter box is required in the door then there are fire resistant FD30 flaps and seals available on the market.

Posted By Paul
fire extinguisher cabinets or extinguisher alarms (sound when extinguisher is removed from bracket) can be a good deterrent against theft and vandalism, although you will need to gauge a likelyhood of this happening. Some of my customers in situations such as yours have a clause in the residents contracts that they must have a powder extinguisher and fire blanket in the kitchens and must be serviced annually. Maybe worth considering.

Posted By GeoffB4
...... and if I were the landlord (or the tenant) I would be very unhappy about it being powder.

Posted By Philip Beale
"who gives you training to use the extinguishers supplied when you buy a new car"

Nothing to say you can't take it out and throw it away. I guess it's the car industry seen to do their part plus i believe they are compulsory to carry in some countries.

Not sure insisting installing fire blankest extinguishers in the flat is the right way to go. You would be better off with mains smoke detectors in the flats.

possible fire extinguishers in the corridors (if possible) at least the occupant has to open their flat door which will allow the smoke to activate the detectors in the corridors/ landings.

Same argument that always comes up for supplying extinguishers for untrained employees at work.

Phil

Posted By Ashley Wood
Paul, choice is the word here. If a tenant chooses through their own initiative to provide themselves with an extinguisher then they are responsible for its use. If they are told they have to provide an extinguisher and not training as well, then if it all goes pear shaped and someone is injured they could say 'well my landlord told me I had to have one'! Don't get me wrong, an extinguisher in trained hands is a wonder to behold.

Posted By GeoffB4
Easy to say you mean? It certainly isn't easy in terms of installation, the location of pressure tanks or in terms of capital cost and maintenance, or vandalism.

But I'd go along with it being the best solution in an ideal world - assuming you mean in the common parts only.