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#1 Posted : 12 December 2007 11:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sharon
There is just no stopping the fun this Xmas!

A lollipop lady has been banned from wearing festive fancy dress because of safety fears.

http://www.telegraph.co....2007/12/12/nlolli112.xml
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#2 Posted : 12 December 2007 11:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sally
I'm not surprised she's been banned in that outfit. There are strict rules on HiVis stripes for a reason. She isn't going to show up very well on a dark morning in that costume.

Perhaps an approach of helping her design a suitable outfit that still had the stripes visible would have been better but we need to be careful that we don't swing too far and shy away from making any reasonable decisions on grounds of health and safety if we think they might be unpopular.
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#3 Posted : 12 December 2007 11:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lilian McCartney
I seem to remember that to work as a crossing patrol you must have the right uniform and wear the hat or if something happens a motorists can say that they weren't properly dressed.

In addition, you need to be able to hear and see everything - cars do sometimes try to drive through the crossing.

Being in a cumbersome fancy dress isn't really practical for this job.
Doesn't stop the odd bit of tinsel or something.

Lilian
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#4 Posted : 12 December 2007 11:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze
I think this is the clincher:

A council spokesman said: "If a crossing patrol supervisor does not wear a reflective jacket they are not insured and if hit, the motorist could not be prosecuted."

At least the council have explained exactly why.

I do agree with the suggestion of a compromise solution though.

Anyone for a bright orange santa suit with Hi-vis trim to EN 471?
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#5 Posted : 12 December 2007 12:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By RBW100
The costume pictured is, in my view, unsuitable for someone performing the role of a crossing attendant.

I'd say that one role of a lollipop lady is to promote good road sense to kids. Dressing as a Christmas pudding in an outfit that is bulky, restricts movement and has no reflective elements is not the best example to set.

I would agree that a suitable costume could be designed that incorporated reflective strips.

I think the council has done the right thing on this one.

Rob W
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#6 Posted : 12 December 2007 12:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Duell
To add a bit of perspective - this is in my home town and the crossing this lady patrols isn't far from me. That's a horrible, badly lit crossing and the traffic speeds through - personally I wouldn't want to try to stop traffic there even WITH full hi-viz etc, never mind dressed as a golden dalek, or whatever that costume is meant to be.

As someone has already said, this is the other side of the bonkers conkers issue - where a decision is unpopular, but right, we've got to be prepared to stand by it. Parents may be criticising the decision now, but I wonder what they'd say if one of their little darlings was hurt while the lady wasn't in her correct uniform?
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#7 Posted : 12 December 2007 12:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Unless in proper uniform then they are not legally authorised to stop traffic. Same goes for Police and Traffic Wardens.
Sorry I can't recall the legal reference.
The LA concerned don't appear to know this, if their response is centred on insurance issues!
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#8 Posted : 12 December 2007 12:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter
And having looked at the picture, if she were to fall over (and she's wearing a fairly good windsail there), she'd have to wait for someone to pick her up!
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#9 Posted : 12 December 2007 14:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Duell
According to the local paper that originally broke the story, a compromise has been reached - she's been provided with a second crossing officer so that she can continue her festive fund raising until the end of term.

http://www.thisissoutham...play.var.1898614.0.0.php

Is it me, or does that mean she's being paid to stand around looking like a numpty...sorry, I mean looking festive...while her colleague does the work? From a safety point of view, problem solved, but this is the council I pay my council tax to...

Still, at least THIS paper isn't censoring comments!
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#10 Posted : 13 December 2007 15:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Grace
Sharon,
Several people have commented that the Council seemd not to know what's what quoting insurance and not referring to issues such as what must be worn by those that seek to stop the traffic.

But Jonathon quoted the Council as saying that the lady was not insured if she didn't wear the HiVis clothing.

What a load of twaddle..!! Of course she is insured! How many employees successfully claim compensation when they have failed to wear PPE..?? Compensation may be reduced due to a successful argument of contributory negilgience. But the employer is still liable - espceially if they knew of the wearing of non-standard clothing/lack of PPE and agreed to it or turned a blind eye.

As other people have indicated this was a GOOD decision that we should support and use to knock back the "elf & safety taliban" pundits.
Phil
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#11 Posted : 13 December 2007 15:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Frank Newman
Insured or not insured, that is not really the question. Visibility is.

This woman risks not being seen by motorists and is much more likely to be run down. As are any children crossing at the time.

Give her some hi-vis tinsel

Merv
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#12 Posted : 13 December 2007 15:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
And who will compensate the motorist who hits her as she frolics around unseen until the last minute on a cold winter morning? University rags and such similar stunts have a place but not among the traffic. Personally I think that the council are right for the wrong reasons. Let us not be diplomatic she had to be stopped as she was a menace to road users.

Bob
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#13 Posted : 13 December 2007 15:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By mike morland
According to her interview by a GMTV reporter she has been raising money for charity by this method for the last 20 years on the same crossing. And it was clear that drivers were slowing down to offer their usual donations.

She clearly sees it as the 'Season of Goodwill' and has been led to believe that this year would be no different from the last 20.

Whilst I too support the decision I think it may have been a little more prudent of the LA to have told her that last years 'fancy dress' would have to be her last. Or perhaps they did?

Any reference to paying council tax for someone to stand around collecting for charity.........bah humbug!
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#14 Posted : 13 December 2007 16:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson
What if it was your child which was hit and injured or even killed as a result of this!

Nuff Said!!!

This not conkers bonkers and I would fully support the council on this!
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#15 Posted : 13 December 2007 16:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Duell
*Any reference to paying council tax for someone to stand around collecting for charity.........bah humbug!*

Bah humbug be blowed - I've spent gawd knows how many hours raising money for the various charities I've belonged to, doing flag days, house to house, pub to pub (including in fancy dress) and goodness knows what else. But I do it on MY time, not my employers'.
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#16 Posted : 13 December 2007 16:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By mike morland
Paul

Well done. You should be commended for your thoughtfulness. My comment was meant to be seasonal. Don't get tetchy!
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#17 Posted : 13 December 2007 16:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By DRB
Okay chaps presume this is on a zebra crossing? If correct also presume that she is only there for a limited number of hours each day? Also presume that those crossing the road at times when she isn't there do not wear hi viz? If all these presumptions are correct what protection to these people have? Surely the crossing should be adequately light so as to ensure the safety of those crossing the road in these circumstances?

If this is the case is the strict interpretation of uniform absolutely necessary at this time of the year?

Not in my view, but if someone can refer me to the regulation that requires hi viz for lolly pop ladies I'd be prepared to reconsider!!
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