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Posted By A Hayden
I hope someone can advise me on the correct procedure.
A delivery assistant, aged 18, was unloading cardboard from the back of a truck at a recycling place. The tailboard was open but the flap had not been lowered into the down position. This meant the tailboard had a ridge. The driver said he did not lower it because there was a pile of cardboard stacked up which did not leave sufficient room to lower the tailgate. (Hmmm?)
The assistant tripped over the flap and fell off the truck, I think the cardboard broke his fall. However he lacerated the underside of his lower arm, and had 8 or 9 stitches in the hospital.They told him to return in 7 to 10 days to have them removed.
I filled in an accident report form, took a witness statement from the driver, the young man was at home by this stage. Along with the warehouse manager, we investigated the accident focusing on the tailboard flap. We felt that if this type of work was undertaken again, this flap should be in a downwards position. We are amending the Risk Assessment to show this and the Warehouse manager gave a toolbox talk to the rest of the warehouse staff regarding this flap, how the accident happened and how best to avoid a reoccurrence. (He felt that the injured person might have contributed to the accident because he is a very enthusiastic worker but perhaps a little gung ho).
I completed the online Riddor form, noting all the issues above, but did not submit it. I printed it off and brought all the documents to my boss, the Company Director, for his approval before submission. He instructed me to hand over everything to him, expressed concern that amending the RA now and as a result of the accident could be problematical to the Company and that it could be an admission of liability and cost the company money. He said Riddor doesn't come into effect untill three days and he wants to interview the delivery assistant himself.
I know he just wants to cover his and the Company's you know what.
What should we do? (I am an office manager who has H&S as one of my duties, my company is a SME employing 65 people)
I would really appreciate some advice. Thanks.
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Posted By Merlin
Have tried to Email you but cannot,
RIDDOR has to be submitted if the workers is absent from work as result of an accident for more than three days
Looking at your thread it would appear that you have done the right thing, if you can email me with a contact number its easier to talk then to write for me
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Posted By Brando
Dear A
OK - first things first ( and please forgive me if I state the obvious ) - I think you would benefit from understanding the basics of RIDDOR.The HSE website has a very good section on RIDDOR. Have a read and then post any specific questions here again.
Your boss is correct - generally injuries over 3 days become RIDDOR reportable.
So don't panic that the report has not gone in - investigate first and then submit.
Note - if you are the responsible person it is your responsibility to make sure the report is done. If for any reason your boss refuses to let you file a report when the proper time comes make him aware of your responsibilities and ask for him to confirm his decision to you in writing.
As for the changes to the risk assessment this could indeed turn into a legal issue but again not always a need for panic. I have always taken the position that following an accident if changes are required to risk assessments and safe methods of work then these need to be made - if you become aware of a new risk how can you possibly ignore it?
There is very little black and white in health and safety.
Brando
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Posted By Robert.
You done right and the boss is correct.
The accident must, though, be logged in the Co accident book.
However if it becomes a RIDDOR reportable, there is a statutory requirement to report such. A subtle reminder to your boss perhaps.
There may be a case for restricted work as opposed to real lost time.
As far as I see you have carried out every thing in the right sequence.
Just a point, did the guy in question mis-interpret come back in seven days or assume stay off work for seven days.
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Posted By A Hayden
He cant work with his arm all stitched as 90% of his job is manual handling. Thanks for your responses.
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Stop running around like a headless chicken. The incident investigation has only just begun. Get the reports from all those involved in the accident including the injured person, If the three days are close report the accident but add only the facts you have to hand, you can always revisit it at a leter date to complete the paperwork. The three days rule is that you must report the accident not the investigation results. Remember that the injury dictates if it is even RIDDOR reportable, check out what the injury actually is before reporting to the HSE. Check if the injured person is back at work and follow up with an interview to find out exactly what happened and why ther gate was left in the raised position, in other words investigate the accident fully and record exactly what happened, forget about any procecution that will be another thing to manage if it becomes a problem, simple deal with the repporting and investigation stage first and put in place whatever corrective actions necessary and go from there.
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Posted By A Hayden
Headless chicken? Thank you anyway.
Thanks very much to Merlin, your advice was wonderful.
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Posted By RBW100
Not sure the 'headless chicken' comment was either helpful or constructive!
I'd say that the boss is right and that the original poster has also done the right thing. Personally, I would not report the incident RIDDOR) until the 4th day of absence.
The boss is correct that changing the RA and any work instructions can been seen as an admission of fault. That's because it IS an admission of fault. By definition the fact that the accident occurred (to a no win no fee solicitor) means that the original risk assessment was not 'suitable and sufficient'. In my view the RA and work instructions should be changed as to not do so would be morally questionable and could (although unlikely in this case) lead to a HSE prosecution for failing to have a suitable RA. It does however mean that should the IP run a civil claim then the action of changing the RA would indicate to your insurers that the accident was in part the fault of the company and pay out.
This is a situation where doing the right safety thing could lead to a civil claim being more likely to be paid out, but that's the way the system works, i'm afraid.
RW
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Posted By Bob Youel
'gung-ho' attitude: Firstly in Chinese [where the term came from] it does not mean what we think it means - it is in fact a positive attitude
However lets move on - We owe a stronger duty of care to a child / adolescent etc than we do to a fully mature adult and usually an 18 year old is just that; a youngster - so your boss needs to tread sensibly
'0'- its nice to here that a youngster wants to get on with it; noting that many do not
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Posted By mike morland
According to a HSE publication 'RIDDOR Explained', the day on which the injury occured is not included in the 3 days absence from work, but non-working days are i.e weekends, rest days or holidays.
Both the publication and the RIDDOR form F2508 respectively state 'over-three day injury' and 'more than 3 days', therefore, if this makes sense:
Accident on a Monday, return to work Friday - not reportable.
Accident on a Wednesday, back to work Monday - reportable.
Furthermore the report has to be submitted within 10 days so that gives you sufficient time without panicking.
Regards
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Hope the Gung Ho thing was not for my benifit, although I would like to be a bit gung ho sometimes especially at my age!!!
The facts remain you don't nee to dive in and report all the facts about a case at the outset. Record the accident yes if it is reportable, but complete the investigation and amend any risk assesments as required, if you don't and you have a second incident knowing that the first assessment requires updating in the fact that something has happened you are in more trouble than it is worth.
What I wassaying (obviously not that clear to some) was the investigation into the accident has only just begun and where you are required to report it, you can only report what you know and have the ability to add more at a later date, but the accident is reported in line with the legal requirements.
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Posted By J Knight
Hi folks,
There is a legal duty to review your risk assessment if you have reason to suspect it is no longer valid. An accident is ipso facto a reason to suspect that a risk assessment is no longer valid. In other words, your boss is wrong, it could be an offence not to carry out a review of the RA; the review might conclude quite reasonably that your RA is still valid, but you must review ras following accidents,
John
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