Posted By Ron Hunter
There are no employer liability issues in the scenario you describe. The arrangement is entirely pivate.

Posted By Martin Thorpe
Thanks Rob.

Are there no liability issues even if the company has provided some of the equipment?!

Posted By Bob Shillabeer
This is quite simple really. The DIY club is not prvided by the employer so it has no responsibility for how it operates. It is simply an arrangement between the people involved and cannot be laid at the company's door. If however, it becomes a formal situation under the companies control (i.e. through the management committee of the centre) then it can become a significant responsibility. Look at who is in control, if its the company do away with it or get the company to formally accept responsibility for it and all that entails.

Posted By Ron Hunter
"If the company owns the equipment" - but it doesn't!!
p.s. who the hell is Rob?

Posted By Ian Gardner
""If the company owns the equipment" - but it doesn't!!"

I'm afraid that's not how I understood the opening post.
I took it to mean that the employees who were members of the 'DIY Club' were able to borrow equipment owned by the company, and take it home to use for DIY purposes.

Can Martin clarify if this is the case or not, to clear up some obvious confusion in this thread.

Posted By M Forbes
See it gets confusing and this is where i say its not worth the hassle. Who ordered the equipment? Did he order it through your company?

If so id put a halt to it now

If you just made a financial contribution to the club and they purchased the equipment themselves, id investigate if they have been set up as a proper club independant of the company, because if this is the case the club will be held responsible for anything that goes wrong not the company, if not i reckon it would still fall back to the company as they supplied the financial contribution and allowed this to happen.

I dont like to repeat myself but this is a bad idea, hence i dont think ive ever heard of such a club before.

Regards

M Forbes

Posted By M Forbes
Just re-read the post, its stored on company premises, its your responsibility. PAT Testing, Maintenance, Training etc etc. You will need to supply the correct PPE with the equipment, as supplying it without the PPE is negligent.

I would really query any benefits that arise from this club, I mean a few employees will be grateful, most won't really care. Is keeping these few employees happy really worth:

The chance of injuring an employee

Increasing the likelihood of employees suffering from HAVS

Having compensation claims filed against the company.


I mean I'm maybe being a bit pessimistic but all i see are negative factors, and well not really any positive.

Regards

Martin

Posted By Martin Thorpe
Thanks Martin.

By the way, does anyone know where i can borrow an angle grinder?

Sorry - Safety Advisors aren't meant to have a sense of humour, are we?!

Posted By Edward Shyer
Could some please point me to the direction of legislation that states that if equipment is stored on their premises then:

its the employers responsibility. for PAT Testing, Maintenance, Training etc etc.

Also where the employer needs to supply the correct PPE with the equipment, as supplying it without the PPE is negligent.

The employer does not own the equipment? and it is not being used as a work activity.

Regards
Ted

Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Just checked the whole posting.

In a passed life I was a secretary oif a social club, a simular thing was muted at the club. I sayed not to touch it as it laid down responsibility on the management committe of the club for defective equipment etc. However this posting is about a company social club and as such is between two pales. If the premises are owner and operated by the company the onus is on the company to manage such a scheme and with it the legal requirements apply. If however, the premises are managed by a management committee consisting of its members the onus falls upon the management committee to ensure the legal requirements are met with. That's why I advised not to do this type of thing.

However, if a group of individuals decide to have such a club the legal requirement falls upon them.

Taking the line that it is a group of people who are joining together to lend each other equipment to do various jobs around the house, the responsibility for ensuring the equipment is fit for use and therefore safey to use rests with that group and the individual who should check it is safe to use before starting to use it.

In short it is not worth the hassle, hire any equipment required from a hire company, they are responsible for ensuring the lit is maintained in a safe manner and when you hire it you sign to say you are fully familiar with its use. The cost of hiring a small piece of DIY kot is so small it is not worth forming such a lending system, sounds nice but there are some very difficult things to manage, therefore not worth the pain.

Posted By M Forbes
In my company we lease out equipment to oil rigs.

We have to have stringest maintenance procedures for all equipment, we have to service all equipment regularly. We have to issue work guidelines for the equipment. A fault finding guide for the equipment. We even supply crews to go with the equipment should the customer require them.

However when they loan out this equipment without a crew, if they have an accident onboard their rig with our equipment, we still have to investigate and report it even tho it was not on our work premises nor did it involve our staff.

We are held accountable even if its the case that the user was using the equipment incorrectly. It comes down to "duty of care" we have a duty of care to ensure our equipment doesnt harm the user. We have to make our equipment idiot proof, but theres always a bigger idiot out there.

Anyway its something that annoys me so im going to shutup about it, but trust me if you own the equipment and lease it out you can be held responsible for the outcomes of another person using it, what makes this incident different from my situation, is that the users of this equipment work for the company.

Regards

M Forbes

Posted By MT
Apologies for a typo. "it would it be leased out by the company" should read "it would NOT be leased out by the company"

Posted By M Forbes
Ted,

I think until we get more info we can't really resolve this. From what i gathered, this is some employees that are running this "club" from within company premises, and the company has bought the equipment.

What we need to know is:

Is this club set up as an official organisation?

How much of the equipment was purchased by your company, and was it the company or the club that ordered the equipment?

Does the club use your company premises to operate out of?

I think by answering these questions we could probably agree on an answer.


Regards

M Forbes

Posted By Kevin Coghill
Ted

An employer accepts responsibility for any item of plant or equipment that it allows to be brought onto site, irrespective of its intended use or who brought it onto site or who owns it.

EG. You bring your radio into work to add some music to a dull day - your employer is legally responsible for ensuring that the radio is safe.

Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Ted,

What has this to do with the employer?? I often bring things to work so my mate can use it at home, it is nothing to do with the company just an arrangement between the two of us. It is used at home therefore nothing to do with the employer so is outside the realm of H&S law. Just like borrowing a ladder from your mate next door. Do you think this has any legal relevance?

Posted By Ron Hunter
Kevin, following your logic, my employer (or even my local Tesco)assumes full responsibility for my car and how I drive it when I enter their car park? I don't think so!

Posted By Ali
The liability will not be criminal as it is a domestic situation and there is no undertaking on behalf of the employer. However, the liability could be civil if there was an injury arising from the equipment and you may be able to pursue a claim in the civil courts.