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Posted By Bob B
As a newbee H&S professional (NEBOSH cert), I am trying to gain hands on experience in H&S and have agreed to do a workplace inspection for a local business.
Although (IMO) I have good knowledge of H&S and in my current employment carry out general risk assessments, I have not yet done a specific 'workplace' inspection and I need to do this one correctly and professionally.
The building takes up 3 large newish industrial units and is used as a vetinary hospital. It is a maze of corridors and rooms including: Offices, Training room, Reception area, Consultaion rooms, Theatres, Intensive care unit, and recovery ares including kennels. I know the building already has a formal fire risk assessment carried out on it so I don't need to worry too much about that.
Also, I am not getting involved in conduating risk assessments of the work being undertaken, although I will look at it from a 'suitable workplace' prospective.
Has anyone got a checklist that I can work from and if possible, a template for a final written report. I would also be intrested if anyone has any any hints, tips and advice. How long should I take etc.
It would also be fantastic if someone could mentor me through this. I am due to do the assessment at the end of January and have given myself 2 days to complete it.
Thanks in advance
Bob
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Posted By ClaireL
I'm sorry Bob but you are not going to like my answer, and I'll probably get grief from other poeple for saying it but....isn't this what IOSH are complaining about, poeple who are not competent giving advice?
Sorry, but there are a lot of risks associated with a vet hospital and if you don't know what they are you shouldn't be offering your services as competent advice. Get the experience before you ask people to pay for the benefit of that experience.
Sorry, but that's my opinion.
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Posted By Tabs
Not quite the same as my point of view.
Sure, walking into a vet's when there is no-one there, and not talking to anyone about what happens there would be foolish.
Walking in and observing and questioning the vet., about what happens and what the risks are is something entirely within the competence of a Cert., holder under mentoring.
As such, I would be happy to offer you a few hours of my time, because you had the wherewithal to ask.
I will drop you an email.
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Posted By mike morland
Bob
Congratulations on achieving your NEBOSH.
However, whilst you wish to gain experience, you may be jumping the gun a little.
What exactly are you planning to risk assess - washroom facilities, lighting, heating, signage etc.
The buildings are 3 stand alone premises and as they are new are probably unlikely to fall down.
In other words, it's only when the workers move in that you have to assess the risks to them and the suitability of the workplace dependent on their work activities.
Should you not try conducting a workplace assessment at your own place of work where you have greater knowledge of the work being done.
Additionally, how can you estimate that you can do the job in 2 days when you have never done such a project.
Regards
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Posted By ClaireL
Tabs,
It is great that you are prepared to offer the time to mentor Bob.
However, my comment remains. If Bob doesn't know the industry, combined with not having any experience in inspections then offering himself as competent advice is wrong, in my opinion. there are too many people who think they can just get a NEBOSH cert and that makes them competent. It doesn't.
I have visited a lot of vets and generally they do not have the time or inclination to spend hours talking you through the risks in their workplace when that is what they are paying you to provide. They just want to get on with being a vet. Are you goung to watch them performing operations and carryinhg out consultations? I don't think so. And they are not going to just offer info about scavenging units, radiation monitoring and zoonosis control. That's what you are supposed to know.
In this case Bob doesn't only not know the risks associated with industry but he also has no experience of inspecting a workplace. This is a bad combination in my opinion.
Bob needs to learn the trade, so going straight in offering competent advice on his own is a little out of his depth in my opinion.
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Posted By Bob B
Claire. I understand what you are saying, but I need to put this in perspective. I am working directly under the the CEO here who happens to be my old Boss. He fully understands my level of competance and is aware I am seeking advice here.
Also as I stated, I am not getting involved in the specifics of the jobs, only the 'place' e.g. lighting, ventilation etc. (does the fire risk assessor need to know about vetinary practices???)
I, along with most other people in the careers forum am having difficuly in getting a full time H&S career due to this lack of experience. I am pushing myself hard with self funded qualifications and accreditations (working towards TECHiosh) and finding any opportunity to gain experience, and it is this type of experience along with the mentoring of you good people that may ultimately land me a full time H&S Job.
Thanks Tabs, I'll look forward to hearing from you
Mike. I have 6 years experience in my own workplace conducting RA's, under close supervision of the senior H&S support manager. However, he puts in the final reports. For obvious reasons, I cannot approach him at this time. This is why I am looking for templates etc.
I'll keep checking in
Bob
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Posted By Bob B
Sorry, that last line should read "This is why I am looking for professional help and advice as well as templates etc"
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Bob
Mike's observation 'it's only when the workers move in that you have to assess the risks to them and the suitability of the workplace dependent on their work activities' throws light on an approach to workplace assessment that you could turn into a n invaluable experience.
As a professional safety/health ergonomist (i.e. CMIOSH, Eur Erg, M Erg S) I qualify Mike's observation by pointing out that it is WITH REFERENCE TO workers that you need to conduct risk assessments. And that's precisely how ergonomics can be so useful because it enables you to draw a range of sciences - particularly physiology, anatomy, biomechanics, physics, chemistry and psychology - into focusing attention on employee hazards.
Of the literally scores of guides to ergs that I've read, I think this is a winner for someone prepared to make the effort: 'Ergonomics. How to design for ease and efficiency' K Kroemer, H Kroemer, K Kroemer-Elbert,Prentice Hall. 2nd or 3rd edition. Rather than templates, what these guys do (they're a family with Kroemer-Elbert the daughter) is much more powerful: they explain how to conduct designs for safety and production, having due regard to hazards and to diverse human factors.
If you use this (or another good ergs guide), I'd be pleased to comment on a draft for you.
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Posted By David Bannister
Bob, I'm confused here. My first inclination was along the lines of Claire's response but your subsequent posting seems to indicate that you will only be looking at issues covered by the Workplace Regs 1992. If so, the ACOP provides an excellent roadmap to allow you to prepare a checklist that you may call your own.
If however you are going to be observing the activities and conditions of a working vet hospital and attempting to offer advice on the risks inherent in the activities then that maybe a step too far. A lower risk business may be a better starting point.
Congratulations on your pass.
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Posted By Bob B
Yes Dave, spot on.
I have no intention of providing a vetinary hospital advice on Radiation and the control of Zoonosis. Having said that, if the CEO asks me to do more, I would look to take more specific courses as part of my CPD (not the radiation though).
Just to clear up Claire's point, I am working under the CEO and not as an independent consultant. Am i doing this correctly, knowing my limitations and seeking further advice?
I will order a copy of the ACOP first thing in the morning
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Posted By Ian_P
Congratulations on your pass Bob!
May I say that your postings are a breath of fresh air. Somebody new to the profession taking things a step at a time and not scared to ask for help. Furthermore someone who is admittedly not pretending to be an expert after passing a Nebosh Cert!
I can relate however to some of the above posts whose comments may have been tainted by previous similar threads by 'consultants' pretending to be 'competent'.
Conducting a workplace assessment (concentrating on the welfare regs) under mentorship is an excellent place to start.
Fairplay to tabs for offering assistance!!
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Posted By Tabs
Bob, I got your in-depth email and rather than reply privately, I thought I would share my response here to answer some of the anxiety being shown by some.
I read your original post correctly as being a workplace inspection - not a set of activity risk assessments. But you still need to talk to those in the environment - according to ClaireL's experience you will need to keep that short.
You are correct to point out that your client knows your experience and limitations, you could also point out that even an assessment by someone of Cert level is a very good start towards compliance with the aims of the enforcing authorities. We are not talking about putting together a safety case for a nuclear plant.
Competence is not for sale anywhere ... so that means you have to go out and get it yourself. If we all took the stance that we cannot do anything we haven't already achieved competence in, we would have no risk assessments, no SSW's, etc.
As far as I know, there is no apprenticeships being offered either.
So your option is to put on the "L" plates and have a competent person sit next to you (hence my offer).
Having read your email to me, I am more than happy to do what you have asked of me, and I hope that is a help.
It's a shame that again we have responses on the forum that have made a lot of (wrong) assumptions and are going for perfect rather than pragmatic approaches to life.
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