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#1 Posted : 18 January 2008 12:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven Sanchez
Hey all, thoughts please, I work in the voluntary sector and part of the organisation "outreach" to clients, including taking clients to appointments... the workers use their own vehicles but do claim mileage so, do they have the right to smoke or allow clients to smoke in their vehicles?
Look forward to your thoughts.
Steve.
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#2 Posted : 18 January 2008 13:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian_P
mmmmm...interesting.

It is up to you to decide how often voluntary workers will have to use their own cars. If it is frequent, then the vehicle will have to be smoke free. If it is infrequent, and the vehicle is used primarily for private use, then the regulations do not require private vehicles to be smoke free. See following excerpt from The Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007:


11.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, an enclosed vehicle and any
enclosed part of a vehicle is smoke-free if it is used—
(a) by members of the public or a section of the public (whether or not for reward or hire); or
(b) in the course of paid or voluntary work by more than one person (even if those persons
use the vehicle at different times, or only intermittently).


(5) A vehicle is not used in the course of paid or voluntary work for the purposes of paragraph
(1)(b) where it is used primarily for the private purposes of a person who—
(a) owns it; or

As you can see by the reg's, if it is PRIMARILY a private car then it does NOT need to be smoke free. However, good customer / client service standards may pursuade you to adopt a smoke free policy if they are used frequently as, no doubt, you may have to transport non-smoking persons!

Hope this helps,
Ian

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#3 Posted : 18 January 2008 14:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By DRB
Consult the workers and find out how many, if any, of them actually smoke. Then discuss your problem with them and you'll probably find that you can come to some sensible agreement such as they won't smoke, and will air the car, when they are on their way to pick a client up and won't smoke with a client in the car.

I doubt that the LA are going to come after you in any case and the chance of causing damage to a client through the inhalation of the remaining tobacco smell is so small as to not worry about.
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#4 Posted : 18 January 2008 14:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lilian McCartney
this could be a tough one to enforce but what seems to be forgotten is that you're not supposed to smoke when actually driving anyway.

It's getting harder and harder for smokers to find some where (I'm not a smoker) but when I see folks out in the rain I get a bit concerend for them as we don't have shelters as most of our employees work in someone elses home and not allowed to smoke there.

Have a good weekend evryone

Lilian
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#5 Posted : 18 January 2008 14:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Merchant
I think with respect that Ian P's missed the (tricky) relationship of the two paragraphs. Para 11.1 requires smoke-free vehicles if used for duties in clause (a) *OR* (b) - and the exemption in 11.5(1)(b)(a) is only for clause 11.1(b) [ooh I love legislation... so many braces, so little time...]

In other words if you carry members of the public, which you say you do, then the exemption for "using your own vehicle" doesn't apply even if it's voluntary work. 11.5(b) was designed to allow different people to *drive* the car or two workers to share a ride, but not to allow smoking if you carry members of the public as passengers.
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#6 Posted : 18 January 2008 14:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ashley Williams
Please note this comment is not a word for word version of the documents concerned.

Heres my 10p's worth.

The HSE guidance note on volunteers states that they are to be treadted as employees from a health and safety perspective, as they are acting in an unpaid capacity and should be offered the same level of protection and duty of care as an employee.

Taking this from the Smoke free perspective if you are carrying clients, the vehicle is no longer a private vehicle as its conveying the public, are they actually insured for this? Do they have business cover?

Public carrying vehicles can not have smokeing in them and as such your volunteers should be treated in the same way as employees, employyes are covered by the smoke free regs, the public are transported and such no fags in cars before, during or after transporting people.

Ash
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#7 Posted : 18 January 2008 14:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Patrick Canning
Maybe it's a Friday thing but can you see the funny side of someone called Ash giving advise on smoking, (no harm intended Ash).
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#8 Posted : 18 January 2008 14:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rob T
If the primary use of the vehicle is private as per section 5 you can jolly well smoke to your hearts content whether there is anyone in the car or not.

Oh by the way Lilian, the Highway Code is not a legally binding document and is only guidance. Of course you can still smoke whilst driving so long as your driving is of an adequate standard and it would be for the police to prove that you were driving without due care - not for you to prove you were.
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#9 Posted : 18 January 2008 15:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By DRB
I remember just before the smoking legislation came in there were loads of posts on this forum that went into minute detail about enforcing the new regs and what problems might arise.

Whatever happened to good old common sense? There are more serious H&S problems to solve than the smoking legislation and yet it always seem to attract so much attention.

I really can't understand why
Admin  
#10 Posted : 18 January 2008 15:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Where employees are in receipt of an allowance then the employer can make it a condition (of employment) that the vehicle will be smoke-free whilst used for business. This approach should be confirmed via usual consultation channels.
The Employer may wish to confirm this via a written Policy or Conditions document.
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#11 Posted : 18 January 2008 16:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Donk
Be careful, start dictating to volunteers and you run the risk of having no volunteers.
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#12 Posted : 19 January 2008 14:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Merchant
The problem with being "too nice" just because people are volunteers is that the law treats them the same as employees, and so your 'allowances' to keep them happy can put you in court. These days people who volunteer do understand that they're doing 'a job' and so expect to have to follow normal rules and regulations - in return they expect to be protected and expect to be able to sue you if they're not!


Personally I'd be far more cautious of volunteering for an organization that says they don't give a hoot about the rules than one which treated me as a normal employee. I'm giving my time, not my health!
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