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Posted By James Albert
All,
A presentation seen recently tells to grab the ladder stiles and not the rungs while maintaining 3-point contact on a ladder. Which way is correct?
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie
This was discussed in a thread some time ago and there was a split response (as I recall about 50/50) I tried a search but could not locate the thread.
I think the holding the rungs camp mainly came form those with fire service training.
I personally hold the stiles when I climb a ladder.
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Posted By Dave Merchant
50:50 notwithstanding there is no correct answer - the arguments people use are based on a mistake in the first place:-
"It's safer to hold the rungs as if you hold the stiles and slide your hands down, you can get splinters"...
"It's safer to hold the stiles as if you hold the rungs you have to keep letting go"...
Both make sense, but both miss the point - the 3-points-of-contact rule is for when you're stationary - while you're climbing you need both hands, so either method works the same. Sliding your hands along the stiles is stupid, but then so is stroking barbed wire... some people have to learn the hard way.
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Posted By GeoffB4
Sliding hands along stiles is stupid.
And getting hold of rungs with mud on them is OK?
I guess I'll stay stupid.
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Posted By Dave Merchant
If your rungs are *that* covered in mud, you're not complying with INDG402. If it's not excessive but it's just icky, wear gloves.
I'd rather wash my hands than slice my skin open.
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Posted By James Albert
Now, rungs or stiles, we speak about an hand hold area; what shall be the diameter of such a handhold?
Some rungs are not circular also, in that case what shall be the size of the rectangular rung?
Stiles, of course, being rectangular are large in size than a typical circular or rectangular rung.
Thoughts are welcome.
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Posted By steven bentham
Good test
Climb up (not very far 18" from the ground will do nicely)
test 1 - hold on tight to the rungs with both hands and take your feet off
test 2 - hold on tight to the stiles with both hands and take your feet off
Then come back and post your answer
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Posted By Tabs
Nice one, Steve.
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Posted By GeoffB4
Is this what this thread has come down to?
Perhaps we ought to concentrate on training people not to take both feet off the rung rather than encouraging them to do so.
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Posted By Heather Collins
I think you need to read it properly Geoff. It's trying to tell you that if you slip you'll be more likely to stay safely on the ladder if you're holding the rungs than if you're holding the stiles.
Personally I thought it was a very good way of making the point.
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Posted By Bryan Goldsmith 16052
And so did I.
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Posted By Tabs
Yes, I seriously doubt any of us would need to do the practical test ... most of us can imagine the outcome sat at our desk. (Most)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Sorry but the old time painters argued that if you hold the stiles it is easier to slide down if you lose your grip thus avoiding the fall. If you lose your grip with rungs then you fall. If you don't believe me find one and announce 1 minute to tea break. They will be at the bottom of the ladder before you turn round!!!:-)
With the best will in the world rungs get pretty messy on most construction sites, even the clean ones.
Bob
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Posted By Michael Quain
INDG403 says hold the rungs.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Michael
The INDG actually states to "take each rung one at a time" which actually does not state clearly grasp each rung rather than the stile.
It also implies that loads up to 25kg can be carried up a ladder. Just goes to show that some things are not well written even by the HSE.
Bob:-)
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Posted By Dave Merchant
Robert's correct - INDG403 makes no guidance on the 'rung or stile' question, and shows pictures of both. It's not badly-written per se, it's simply that that HSE cannot guide on an issue where there's no official policy (no ACOP or formal research evidence). They have to protect their own liability!
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Posted By steven bentham
Go on try the test, you know you want to!
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Posted By Andy Petrie
Given that there's no real benefit either way I'd suggest you tell the individual to do whatever they feel most comfortable with. (given they'll ignore you anyway and do their own thing the minute you turn round anyway)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Andy
And they will feel good at putting one over you. Why pick battles that you will lose whatever the situation.
Bob
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