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Posted By RBW100 Just saw this news story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...s/south_east/7200678.stmThe level of the fine seems extremely low given the level of profit that the company in question make. The story seems to indicate that the system for locking the barrier in position was not followed. This is a similar situation that we all face i.e. one of getting people to do what they should and following procedure. Either someone did not do as they were told or the instruction was not given by management. But even given that the incident was a 'local' failure, I feel that the fine should have had a couple more zeros on the end of it. After all a similar incident had occurred at another store a couple of years earlier. I was one who felt the fines levied following the plastics company explosion in Scotland was suitable given the size of the operation. But here ASDA made what £800 million a year? Rob
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Posted By Tabs
UK law has never been designed to be effectively punitive to big business. I don't know of any law that sets specific percentile fines.
10% of gross profit would be about right for a life I suggest. But maybe that needs gradation to account for size too..
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Posted By Ron Hunter
If it's 10% for one life, then how much for two?
For one hundred?
This is a human tragedy.
The only small consolation is that the way is now clear for the family to achieve substantial compensation via the Civil Courts.
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Posted By Martin Taylor
I agree with Ron here. The fine seems commensurate with other prosecutions for fatal accidents and the level of failure of management systems.
Do we really think that £10,000,000+ fines will improve the everyday standards of safety in the workplace?
Martin
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Posted By Barry Cooper
The company had warnings that there were problems with the barriers, following earlier incidents. It took the death of a customer for them to decide to remove the barriers.
The fine needs to be large enough to send a clear message that failing to take adequate precautions will result in them being penalised. Either that or prosecute the store manager and directors
10% of £800m sounds about right to me.
Barry
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Posted By Tabs
"Do we really think that £10,000,000+ fines will improve the everyday standards of safety in the workplace?"
Offer that sum to the HSE or LA's or IOSH to conduct campaigns or training, or site inspections ...
Could £10M have an effect? Possibly could, I think. I am willing to risk trying.
Maybe it could even be used to reduce the time families face between killing and court case by increasing the resources of the HSE? Ever imagined what they must go through waiting for 'justice'?
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Tabs,
There comes a point when financial penalties affect us all. Such figures as you suggest could impact on and harm our overall economy.
This may seem cynical, but I believe it to be realistic.
As I say, this is a human tragedy and the level of criminal fine cannot ease the pain of the family.
Of course, it shouldn't have happened. Perhaps imprisonment would be a relevant punishment, but that brings us back to another argument of who's (ultimately and in actuality) to blame?
All in all, a very emotive issue.
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Posted By Andy Brazier
I understand that the new corporate manslaughter act which will be enabled from April this year may levy fines of up to 10% of turnover (which is much more than profit). However, I don't know how easy it would have been in this case to prove that the companies senior management had been grossly negligent. It seems to me there is a fundamental design problem here whereby a very simple error (forgetting to lock the barrier open) can cause a fatality. Asda are not the only ones to use such barriers and so I would say they were following standard practices.
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