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Posted By Ian Clay1
When cleaning out domestic properties it has been suggested to leave a cleaning pack for incoming residents. this would include polish, all surface cleaner, toilet cleaner etc.
I am scepticle about this due to the hazardous nature of some of the products, which are all available off the shelf, due to allergic reaction, none reading English tennants etc.
I would like to here your thoughts.
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Posted By CFT
Ian
Generally with such a pack this would have been requested by the developer and it will form part of your contract to provide; you will likely have been expected to provide said developer with documentation, (or you should have been) this then usually becomes the responsibility of the developer to ensure the products are acceptable for the use of and to consider their client bases needs and requirements in terms of possible language/product requirements.
Whilst I admit this becomes a commercial venture and as such must conform to a variety of legislative requirements, it is worth noting that your comparison to 'supermarket' products is a fair one but not strictly correct as you have supplied products on a commercial basis. I feel certain that you supply all the current MSD's and COSHH RA's to the developer with any other support documentation you feel is appropriate.
It would be unlikely that you are required to supply products in a multi lingual manner, although many are prepared in a variety of languages straight off the shelf.
Again, making reference to the Support Services Company I once ran, we were undertaking 'builders cleans' to some 2000 plus properties (nationwide) on an annual basis and never once experienced any problems as most of the products are as you say 'easily available' from local shops and supermarkets and one would expect the end user to have a basic understanding and comprehension of how the product does in fact work. Don't get to fanciful in what you provide in the pack, and always ensure they are correctly labelled. In other words I would not advocate bulk buying and decanting into your own brand smaller containers.
CFT
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Posted By Tabs
Perhaps you could look for non-hazardous alternatives?
I have a feeling that they do exist - even if they are not as effeective as the corrosive ones.
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Posted By Chris Packham
Non-hazardous cleaning products? A contradiction in terms! Anything that cleans must be hazardous to the skin. In fact, one of the most common causes of occupational contact dermatitis is water, i.e. wet work. The fact that a chemical may not have a risk phrase does not mean that it is not hazardous. Consider definition (e) in regulation 2(1) of COSHH and you will see what I mean.
Chris
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Posted By Robert.
Instead of providing a "cleaning" pack and be potentially exposed to a claim, why not consider a voucher basis so that the incoming residents can choose the commercially available off the shelf product(s) they are most comfortable with.
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Posted By Tabs
2(1)(e) of COSHH: (e) which, not being a substance falling within sub-paragraphs (a) to (d), because of its chemical or toxicological properties and the way it is used or is present at the workplace creates a risk to health;
"workplace" means any premises or part of premises used for or in connection with work,
Well if even water is going to be classified as hazardous to health by you, then I agree, there is nothing which is not hazardous.
But I think you are taking things way too far.
Continuous submergence in water may cause difficulty - but how many of us get dermatitis when doing normal housework?
There are cleaning agents which can be used in simple ways which will not cause concern to the normal population. Those who are super-sensitive have an obligation to themselves not to use cleaning products.
But just to be sure? Include gloves (avoid latex and every other sensitisers though, ok?).
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Posted By Chris Packham
Tabs
Talk to any contact dermatologist and they will tell you that the most common form of contact dermatitis that they have to deal with is what they term "housewives dermatitis" from cleaning products in the home. As someone who spends a great deal of my time investigating suspected occupational skin problems it is very often this type of chemical that causes the problem rather that the more "hazardous" substance with a risk phrase.
In fact, at the 2nd World Congress on Work-related and Environmental Allergy in Weimar last May it was shown that long term immersion is actually less of a problem than frequent, short term immersions.
I have recently had to deal with several cases of occupational contact dermatitis in hospitals from the increase in the frequency with which hands are washed, i.e. short term, frequent exposure.
So am I taking it too far? Not in my experience!
Incidentally, why do you state that we should avoid latex? Nothing wrong with latex provided you avoid the unpowdered, high free protein, single use gloves. There has never been a significant latex allergy problem with the reusable natural rubber gloves (Marigolds?)used in cleaning, etc.
This is just one more aspect of occupational hazards where a great deal of nonsense is talked.
Chris
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Posted By Tabs
"it is very often this type of chemical that causes the problem rather that the more "hazardous" substance with a risk phrase."
Well, I live and I learn - I guess I have to bow low to your expertise in this subject - which I am happy to do.
I am unnerved to read your posting, and I may even start to use the Marrigolds normally reserved for others.
:-)
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Posted By Chris Packham
Tabs
Rereading my posting I hope I did not come across as being aggressive. This was not my intention. However, as someone who has spent the past 28 years concerned with the prevention of damage to health from workplace skin exposure and having seen much unnecessary suffering this is something that I feel strongly about.
On the latex issue we have produced a Technical Bulletin explaining the true facts. We would normally charge for this, but anyone from this forum who e-mails me I will e-mail the bulletin back free of charge.
Chris
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Posted By Pete Longworth
"Continuous submergence in water may cause difficulty - but how many of us get dermatitis when doing normal housework?"
I have often experienced RSI of the eardrums if I don't contribute to normal housework. Does that count?
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Posted By CFT
Pete
RSI of the eardrums!! You have made my day, thank you!
Charley
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Posted By Mitch
If you are going to supply free cleaning packs why not leave a flier in the house advising residents where they can collect the packs from, if required, and issue instruction(s) with the kits. You will not need a large storage facility and will have to keep stocks somewhere in any case.
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Posted By Robert.
If the accomodation is being cleaned by a contracted service before a new resident occupies it, then why would you want to leave a cleaning pack?
Surely it undermines the quality aspect of the original work.
If it meets an acceptable standard of hygiene, then why give something away for nothing?
what a nice company.
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Posted By Pete Longworth
CFT it's the only instance where noise induced hearing loss or temporary threshold shift would count as a benefit
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Posted By GeoffB4
I guess the same applies to leaving a bottle of wine for new owners/tenants.
So we'll need an MSDS, a COSHH assessment and a 60 page briefing on how alcohol is bad for us.
Yup, I've got it now.
Come on guys, this a box of cleaning materials readily available from any supermarket and is intended for domestic use. It is a gesture of goodwill from the supplier/builder whatever and would be appreciated by the incoming tenants.
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Posted By Mitch
Geoff,
"appreciated" perhaps I'm just getting sceptical in my old age!
(Grumpily) Mitch
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