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#1 Posted : 18 February 2008 15:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ali I would be very interested in members experience of cscs cards for Construction - what standard they have gone for, how they achieved it and if it was used towards CHAS accreditation. Also. what thry think are the pros/ cons of the scheme ? Thank you.
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#2 Posted : 18 February 2008 15:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert. Ali, if you search the forums, you will find all the positive and negative answers you will ever need. I think it's a topic that is well exhausted. What d'ya intend to do with the data anyway?
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#3 Posted : 18 February 2008 15:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ali ...sorry, I forgot to mention we are looking at CHAS accreditation and cscs cards in conjunction with this over HSE safety passport.
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#4 Posted : 18 February 2008 15:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Barrie (Badger) Etter Ali I Have the yellow frequent visitor card for when working for a window company, was never asked for it though. Also the company used CHAS and Constructionline. Hope that helps. As an aside IEMA are doing an entry to cscs at platinum level on their web site - moderators, can IOSH do something along similar lines? Badger
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#5 Posted : 18 February 2008 16:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven Graham If you speak to Gordon Jenkins (CSCS scheme manager)or Brian Adams (CEO) they will let you know that IOSH does have a direct route of entry to CSCS at Platinum level, IEMA are i bit further behind and are doing the same. also for anyone who is into project management the APM's is also in the process of aranging routes of entry and they are at stage 2 of the e process where they have to map their grade system against the NVQ national standard to allow CSCS at aportion card grade to mebership grade. CSCS are also in the process of initiating their "smart card" scheme that will allow use of the system with other system more efficient. lastly the CSCS website has a load of data on it if you wish to look hope this helps
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#6 Posted : 19 February 2008 08:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis They still think their touch screen test is better than a diploma and 20 years H&S experience in construction though. I hope that one day these cards will be recognised for what they are - a certificate of having done the test coupled to a trade skill. It is never going to be more than this unless the scheme ceases to be a series of one off renewals unless they demonstrate an improvement year by year by the holder in her/his H&S performance. What these cards are not is evidence of H&S competence. They simply do not measure any of the relevant indicators other than a very basic knowledge. They are a simple test of this knowledge and it is time site management and organisations stopped relying on them as evidence of competence. Time and again I meet those questionnaires that demonstrate a belief that organisations who have CSCS operatives are thus competent. The whole of the training in the sector needs to be re-framed to ensure that there is an ongoing "CPD" style arrangement for operatives with regard to H&S. This way the training burden can be shared by all employing contractors not simply the one holding the baby at the renewal point. Bob
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#7 Posted : 19 February 2008 08:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Sorry there was a gap in what I intended to say in para 2. I was trying to say that these cards will remain a very basic indication unless they develop into a form that will demonstrate ongoing improvement. Bob
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#8 Posted : 19 February 2008 10:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michael Battman These cards were only ever intended to confirm a very basic level of personal safety on site. Nothing more, nothing less. The subject has become clouded with the 'professional' cards attempting to set higher standards.
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#9 Posted : 20 February 2008 10:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ali Thanks for the responses. I've looked at the cscs website, but could not find any reference to the blue / silver / gold corporate schemes nor the different coloured cards for visitors, operatives and managers. Can anyone give me a definitive answer ? Thanks,
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#10 Posted : 20 February 2008 10:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven Graham Hi I have asked Gordon jenkins to post a response on the system, he is the CSCS scheme manager. However if you call any of the contact numbers for CSCS, found on the website, they will be able to help with further information and dertails on the scheme. the website also has a great deal of literature in the way of a "scheme booklet" which should inform you of everything you need to know. The systemn isn't perfect and the CSCS team are slowly and carefully improving the process, but considering there is nothing else out there that comes close to what they have achieved in the construction industry I think they have done a very good job. However, with all things it is easy to complain and find fault with any system.
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#11 Posted : 20 February 2008 10:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ali Steven, Thanks for the info and I've now printed off a copy of the booklet, which I'm reading ! Ali
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#12 Posted : 20 February 2008 11:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB4 However, with all things it is easy to complain and find fault with any system. Agreed Stephen, but actually over the years a lot of comments on this forum about CSCS have been very constructive - I've yet to see anybody acknowledge that fact, or to take any of them up. So yes it is easy to complain, but it is also very easy for action to be taken to remedy the complaints.
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#13 Posted : 20 February 2008 11:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steven Graham but it is also very easy for action to be taken to remedy the complaints I agree completely, it is all down to the fact: 1) making comment on an open forum good or bad is not going to get them recognised by CSCS 2) has everyone who have ideas on improvement pressed IOSH to gather them and put a formal response to CSCS for discussion 3) Have IOSH recognised the need from its members to do this. To improve any system and recognise where it has far been effective and build on that means the parties who wish to help in this process need to push to have a forum to collate and gather ideas and constructively feed them into a system that can do something about it. making comments on IOSH or any other forum or "ideas to friends" does not achieve this. If there have been significant comments made on the forums on CSCS and nothing been done by IOSH in recognising its members needs in setting up a group to review this area and gather the comments,then i suggest you talk to IOSH who monitor the forums and suggest to them that the mods could also be utilised to collate ideas as well as monitor compliance to the rules (note to mods this is an idea not a complaint).
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#14 Posted : 22 February 2008 15:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew Bradbury Fair enough.. Dont worry I'll be writting to the CSCS about my complaint, please see the "What CSCS card?" thread for more information.. Andrew
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