Posted By paul harman Claire send me your e-mail address pharman@breyergroup.co.uk Regards Paul

Posted By Robert K Lewis Claire Your sister companies will have some very good ones to show. But the problem is often that clients believe that CPPs should be all in the same format - this is not the case. They should reflect your own management systems. As long as the acop requirements are covered stand your ground. With your specialisms they are going to find it difficult to go elsewhere especially as you already have the contract to be in this position. Bob Bob

Posted By MAK Some ideas why Construction plans are not deemed sufficient are that they dont include the following or there is simply only generic content which does not fully address and manage the risks etc. Include: H&S policy, organogram i.e who is going to be the dutyholder on site? who should this person report to? first aider? first aid box, welfare arrangments? How will they manage COSHH if applicable? Nature of the project Dates and construction programme how you will manage H&S throughout the project i.e communication, supervision, monitoring accident reporting etc etc etc. The key thing in a construction plan will be risk assessments and method Statements. They should be site and task specific and clearly details how any key risks will be reduced and subsequently managed. It depends on the complexity of the project and the nature of the site, and the key thing IS THE RISK but the biggest mistake people make is thinking that one set document template will fit all projects, it wont, and its not always necessary or productive to send 150 generic pages for a "minor" uncomplicated construction project. Read the Preconstruction plan you should have for the project, there should be clear direction as to the kind of information the client/CDM-C is looking for. All in all it depends sometimes on what the person reviewing the thing, thinks is required.. for example, I couldnt care less if the template comes in pink with flowers as long as the risk are identified and will be managed with the right level of care and attention. I hope this helps.

Posted By Robert K Lewis Claire Also beware of loading it with RAs and MSs these will not be available for the totality of work and if the client has assessed you as competent then you are competent to provide a plan without stocking fillers of this RA and that RA. I already know you can manage - just describe how you will manage on the project. Bob

Posted By Martyn Hendrie Claire, I agree with Robert Lewis. So long as your plan addresses the matters detailed in the Acop appendice and has sufficient detail for the initial phase of the project (as well as a review/ revision process)the cleint should pass it as suitable. It is not for a client to dictate the format of the plan

Posted By Robert K Lewis MAK This is when it starts to fall apart. It goes back to the ongoing debate of templates being issued for general use by all. I know many organisations where they actually run two systems side by side - One is what they offer clients etc - the other is what they actually do. The latter is the one understood by the site teams and is logical to the structure and culture of the company. The former is a win the tender document. At the end of the day "it is not in the template I wanted" is not suitable and sufficient reason to determine a contract. After all by the time the CPP is requested the contract has been won and probably signed. I still find it hard to understand why people are so tied to a format that they will say any other format is inadequate. I personally am not concerned with the layout etc of the CP plan but am "meticulous" that the appendix 3 information is covered together with the requirements set out in my pre-construction document. For instance if the first line on the construction programme is not "install welfare" then I look very closely for what is actually going to happen - If it is not day one on the programme how is welfare to be managed from day one? Bob

Posted By MAK Bob, Have already offered my tuppence worth in regards to templates, but it is a fact that clients can and do put in preliminaries that their template is to be used. Whether the plan that Claire refers to is being rejected because of format is unlikley would you agree?

Posted By Martyn Hendrie MAK I hear what you are saying about client specifying the format of the construction phase plan. In my opinion this is completely wrong as the plan should reflect how the PC will manage H&S on site. To do this it should reflect the PC's policies and procedures and be project specific. In my experience clients; CDM-C's who look to specify formats either don't understand the regulations or are looking to make life easier for themselves by being able to go down a tick list and a plan formatted in line with the tick list make life easy. If the Client controls what is in the plan and how it is formatted i believe they may be considered as "having control" on site (to a certain extent) and find themselves in a difficult position if an accident occurs related to the arrangements they have insisted on.