Posted By JimE Hello folks, I've just completed an updated risk assessment,ssow and operator training sheet for vertical bandsaws. We have supervisors who have been operating the saws since the dark ages or operators they deem sensible as the trainers but nothing written down to say the trainers are competent. Any advice on how one proves the trainers are competent to train the trainees would be greatly appreciated. JimE

Posted By Dave Merchant If there aren't any courses to send them on, then on paper you can't! If there are then you could push them through (assuming they'll all pass as they're good) which gives a cert in a file somewhere, but with most things like you describe nobody 'teaches' it anymore. It was the stuff you learned as an apprentice but nobody wrote down, because they didn't need to (and IMO still don't). One option, taking a defending position, would be that 'competence' means the person is safe, so a provable large number of hours without accidents could only be achieved if the person was competent, eo ipso they are. Nobody is competent on paper to cross a busy road, but the fact you're alive and out of school uniforms means you have to be.

Posted By Mitch Dave, When I served my apprenticeship all training on machinery operation was recorded in my Log Book along with set tasks on each piece. whether that makes me "competent" is another matter. Regards Mitch PS I have always hated vertical bandsaws!

Posted By Dave Merchant The HSE's view may be 'succinct' but it doesn't define the word in the slightest. A list of things a competent instructor should be able to do isn't a definition of the concept in the first place (I'm being legally pedantic but it matters). Using the HSE system:- "A competent driving instructor must be aware of the Highway Code and be able to operate and maintain a vehicle correctly. They should be able to identify road signs and good at communicating their knowledge to others" There's a boy next door who can do all that, but he's 17 and passed a month ago. I also know a few rope access assessors who are too long in the tooth to *do* the work anymore, but are still perfectly competent to teach. It's all about the 'training' vs 'experience' argument - either can be essential, but which is best depends on the job. Both would be nice, but don't happen all that often!

Posted By Robert K Lewis Dave M Problem for employers though is that it is all they have to go on. Not much I agree but it is designed to allow the HSE room to interpet a situation as necessary. In the old days......... Bob