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#1 Posted : 06 March 2008 12:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By simon Hi, This is my first post so if i have said anything that is wrong please don't drag me over the coals for it. Right. My next door neighbour (bless him) is a steel fabricator by trade. He uses Oxy Acetalene all the time. He also welds, grinds and generally makes as much noise as he can.... 4 FEET FROM MY KITCHEN. First thing. Is he allowed to leave his oxy acetalene bottles right by our back fence. Surely they must be secured properly. Secondly, Is he allowed to run a business like this from home. Surely he must have to get special licenses and permits to even do this kind of thing in an industrial unit let alone in a domestic environment. Its been going on for about a year now and i was just wondering if it's legal to do what he is doing.
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#2 Posted : 06 March 2008 13:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mitch Simon, There are a number of issues with storing gas cylinders proximity to buildings, sources of ignition, mixing different gases, I would contact your Local Authority on this matter, they will have Health & Safety Officers who will deal with this. As for "running a business" from domestic premises, the answer is this is not allowed unless he has planning permission to do so, I think it's a Class B2 for fabrication workshops? He will also be subject to business rates on the part of the premises used for business purposes which are considerably higher that domestic rates, again your LA Planning and Business Rates departments are responsible for these areas. Before you go down this route with the LA, have you discussed your concerns with your neighbour?
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#3 Posted : 06 March 2008 13:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By jom Simon, You might do well to talk to your local council authority. Find out if this activity is allowed in this area. J.
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#4 Posted : 06 March 2008 13:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By simon Yes, i have mentioned it to him and he told me it was only for a couple of weeks last summer. He did have an industrial unit where he did all of his work but he told me that he was paying a lot of money for something had he didn't use very much. He used to do most of the work on site. Now he does all of it at home. I think i might have to get in touch with the LA and then they can get it sorted because i can't risk anything happening to me or my family because of his negligence.
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#5 Posted : 06 March 2008 13:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Simon I agree with Mitch here; in the first instance speak with the neighbour (which clearly you have). I would now suggest as stated, the LA EHO depratment, you have rights to the enjoyment of your property and if needs be an inspecting officer may wish to use powers under the Environmental Protection Act (among others). There are of course safety realted issues but the LA will usually respond far quicker with the Environmental hat on as opposed to the H&S one (but not in all cases). Finally, yes as alrady mentioned, the business rates and the fact it is not registered as a place of work, does he employ, facilities, welfare etc etc it goes on and one would guess he is unlikely to have considered the very minimum of required standards. It greatly depends on your relationship as to whether you feel you can request the activity to stop and everything removed before approaching the LA; only you know the possible outcome. If twere me I may prefer the obvious and initial anonimity; when asked by your neighbour you can always say it was as much a surprise to you as it was to him. Ask the LA man for guidance on your right to anonimity with regards identification. Good luck CFT
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#6 Posted : 06 March 2008 13:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mitch Simon, You have the right to anonymity, I had a similar thing with a local taxi company (see early postings) and my name wasn't brought into it, that is until someone who knew someone etc and I chose to fight fire with fire, but just be warned anonymity cannot be guaranteed unless you control the situation, write anon letters etc. Mitch
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#7 Posted : 06 March 2008 14:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By simon Thanks very much guys. I appreciate all of your comments
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#8 Posted : 06 March 2008 16:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nigel Price RE: CFT's response: "I would now suggest as stated, the LA EHO depratment, you..." Obviously just a slip of the finger, but I think this deserves including in the other forum thread for a Collective Noun for Safety Persons. A Depratment of Safety Officers, brilliant!
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#9 Posted : 06 March 2008 16:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Actually I'm fingers and tums today as I note I made reference to the impending CS&CH Act 2007 earlier, which should have course been the CM&CH 'Corporate Slaughter Act for which I apologise. I am surprised I was let off that one! Hmmm for this one perhaps the mistake may have been worthwhile after all, for which I make no apology :-) Charley Farley Farnsworth Trelawney
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#10 Posted : 07 March 2008 13:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson This is most definitely a LA EH Dept issue. How far you wish to take it will depend on the LA and yourself. The law surrounding nuisance is a bit of a mine field unless you understand the differnces, however the LA can take action to prevent this. It may be a good idea to take some photos and make an appointment to visit the EHO at the council so that it is kept anonymous and then plan what you intend to do from there. In my experience a lot of the issues with neighborhood disputes is that the person does not know he is causing a problem, if you have spoken to him and he still will do nowt or you may feel that you could be 'abused' then the EH Dept can deal with this as well.
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#11 Posted : 07 March 2008 13:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart99 Hi LA's do not enforce H&S at domestic premises it is HSE. However, it would appear to be controllable through the planning dept, as it would need planning permission. Noise could be potentialy dealt with by the LA Environmental Health dept under EPA 1990 statutory nuisance provision. Sounds like a candidate for a 'neighbours from hell' programme!
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#12 Posted : 07 March 2008 14:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Stuart I agree however this is most definitely an EPA problem if it is then found that he is running a business from a domestic dwelling then other issues arise and the LA can then lase with those other interested enforcement agencies. This is causing a nuisance and this should be the first point of the investigation.
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#13 Posted : 07 March 2008 14:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By MT Agree Dave. It is true that LAs do not enforce H&S legislation in residential premises, but I don't think anyone was actually saying that. I think the starting point is your local EHO, as the problem is not a health and safety at work one as such, it's a noise nuisance, and EHOs are the ones with the powers to deal with such issues.
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#14 Posted : 07 March 2008 15:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By naomi Hi Simon I had the same problem as you a few yrs ago where my old neighbour was doing the same thing (generally welding and fixing cars) in his garage in the back garden. I informed the LA and sorry to say it appeared nothing was done about it, and he carried on trading. Last week their was an explosion in his garage and the whole street had to be evacuated for the night!! Luckily no-one was injured but I hope to god he had insurance as alot of claims and the HSE will be coming his way.
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#15 Posted : 07 March 2008 16:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Can anyone tell me why exactly the HSE will investigate a domestic 'probable' H&S related offence and not the LA EHO responsible for safety related areas? Just curious as to why and how this came about as it is a somewhat ambiguous process when you consider other areas of responsibility between the two organisations. CFT
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#16 Posted : 07 March 2008 16:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By simon Ok, so i have used my so called anonymity and informed the HSE regarding the use of a unsecured bomb (oxy acetalene) around domestic dwellings. I have also informed them of the use of welding and grinding equipment in the same place with no fire precautions. I think i will wait and see what happens for a few days. Then i might have to make some more phone calls. Watch this space!!
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#17 Posted : 10 March 2008 11:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Simon take the point mate just because there is Oxy around does not mean that it is being used for 'work' purposes could be private use.
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#18 Posted : 10 March 2008 15:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Harrison CFT, The enforcement regs detail the responsibility for domestic premises. The enforcing body will be dependent on the access/egress to where the work activity is taking place and the type of activity. For example if there is separate access to where the work activity is undertaken e.g. a garage or garden with a side access. Then the EA will be dependent on the activity as per the Enf. Regs. If the work activity is being carried out in a room that cannot be accessed without entering the domestic premises, it will be the HSE irrelevant of the activity itself. This may all change with flexible warranting though! Paul :-)
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#19 Posted : 10 March 2008 15:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Paul Thank you; who actually makes the decision then or is it a category one? CFT
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#20 Posted : 10 March 2008 15:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Harrison CFT Category One, meethinks. Paul
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