Posted By peter gotch
Hi Mark.

Have you fallen into the trap that others frequently do on these forums of viewing CSCS as a Health and Safety initiative.

It's not - it's an initiative to achieve MINIMUM levels of trades competence, where trades means everyone including the professionals.

The health and safety test is just one minor component of the process which is not expensive - and less so for those paying the CITB levy - nor for most, particularly time consuming - assuming people are relatively close to a test centre.

....and why should we H&S professionals attempt to stem an initiative that has the support of e.g. Government and the Major Contractors Group, neither of whom suggest that holding a card demonstrates the full competence that someone needs to do their job.

This is simply one element of the industry's response to the challenges in Revitalising Construction.

Regards, Peter

Posted By peter gotch
Hi Dave.

Fully support future developments so that more comparable schemes are accepted as alternatives to CSCS.

PS. We are very small fish in a very big pond. Only 31000 members of IOSH [many of whom are not regularly dealing with construction] against the best part of 2 million working in this sector.

Regards, Peter

Posted By Ian Mitchell
I have never yet been asked for one! Is it just me?

I would just get the visitor's card if needs be and use my IOSH card as professional competence evidence.

Cheers

Posted By paulandrew
hello ,
my name is polishpaul. what i do not understand is why English people must have these cards to work on site.
But me and my fellow country men never get asked for them.
There was a big site i was working on in leeds,
st jameses hospital , new cancer wing.
Bovis was the company.

All the english were asked for them , but not one of us polish got asked. Don`t get me wrong i am not complaining about it , i just do not understand.

Posted By RP
I had to visit a site on behalf of the client and did not have a CSCS card. The site was not anything to do with the MCG. Was told politly that no card means no site entry, although the site was fairly open being on the road. OK says I 'stop the job'.

Much ensued and I was allowed to enter the site to conduct the clients business, was even offered a hard hat, but pointed out no other person was wearing one, so why me. Was told its because I did not have a CSCS card and to lower the risks to my health and safety. I checked then around the site being fairly statisfied on leaving I asked the person who requested this CSCS card for a look at his to see if it worth the money, time, travel costs to nearest test station. He did not have one, yet...

Posted By CW
"that a five year old could pass"

And the people who actually fail the test are immediately drafted into the CSCS call centre.

Today our admin bod was off so I decided to get two more of our guys booked to take the test. One hour and twenty minutes later I think I managed to book the test via 'Ricki'

Posted By RL
Was or is there a reason why IOSH werent able to get an exemption for its members?? Apologies if this has been asked before...

Posted By Hazel Harvey
IOSH Membership and the CSCS card

IOSH membership can be used as part of the application process for CSCS cards, using the professional membership mapped route (PMMR).

The following cards are available for IOSH members once you have successfully completed one of the multi-choice touch screen tests.

Professional Qualified Person’s card (Yellow) for members who are not permanently resident on a construction site. These cards allow 30 days of visits in any 6 month period. This is not to be confused with the more simple visitors card which allows people to make deliveries to site and similar. The card will show that it relates to strategic health and safety management. .
• All Graduate Members (Grad IOSH), Chartered Members (CMIOSH) and Chartered Fellows (CFIOSH) may obtain this card once they have completed the PQP test, however, you will be required to verify your experience in the construction industry by submitting a CV with your application. Additionally Technician Members (Tech IOSH) who hold the NEBOSH Construction Certificate are also eligible.

For members who are operating on sites on a full-time basis the following options are available:

• Construction Health and Safety Manager’s card (Platinum) for Chartered Members and Fellows (CMIOSH/CFIOSH) who have passed either the H&S Managers or PQP test.
• Construction Health and Safety Officer’s card (Gold) for Graduate Members (Grad IOSH) who have passed either the H&S Supervisors or PQP test
• Trainees card (Red) for supervisors and managers who hold level 3 qualifications for Technician Members (Tech IOSH) who hold a NEBOSH Construction Certificate who have passed either the all CSCS card holders:

It should be noted that the PQP test takes precedence over the other tests so it is strongly recommended that IOSH members should take this test which would allow them to obtain a higher level card if their circumstances change. (An example of this would be a Graduate Member becoming a Chartered Member and upgrading their Gold card to Platinum). Tests are valid for 2 years for application of a card and cards are valid for 5 years.

The Black Senior Health and Safety Manager’s card will be available to holders of the NVQ level 5 in OSH Practice only.
In all cases IOSH will verify the membership categories of applicants to the CSCS cards you will not be required to ask another member to verify this. For resident’s cards an employer or in the case of a consultant or self-employed member, client, will also be required on the application form.
Members wishing to apply for a CSCS card can apply via www.cscs.uk.com.

Hazel Harvey

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
Hazel

it is still a shambles. My colleague has a platinum card and wouldnt know a construction site if it bit his backside. My two apprentices both have cards and I wouldnt allow them to build lego. Can we have some honesty on this issue? Firstly many sites dont require a skills card. Secondly it is not a requirement Thirdly the test is Micky Mouse and finally the construction industry is still the only industry that will allow anybody in regardless of competence.
Why dont IOSH or subsidiary body produce more effective format?

Posted By MP
Sorry

ISBN 978-1-85751-213-7

Posted By alex mccreadie
Hazel thanks once again for everything you do for IOSH members in this farcical scheme.

My biggest laugh is this colour scheme for cards it is codswallop.

The only thing you could do with the colour scheme cards is play snap.

I have been on sites controlled by every one off the MCG.

I have no CPCS or CSCS card but never refused entry I do tell them I have a passport to safety card. I am not going on a site to use a construction skill CSCS or operate plant CPCS but offer advice on Lifting Operations and Lifting Problems.

I am finding my best line is to tell them if they do not let me assist I will call the HSE for them to assist?

Ta Alex

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Tony

It takes two to tango unfortunately - The CSCS board are not interested in relinquishing their stranglehold on this area. If gov't and HSE had not been so supportive of the H&S test addition the problem would have disappeared a long time ago.

Bob

Posted By Ken Lucas
Good point MS

On a construction site last week - spoke to the supervisor of a contract company about my concerns on a number of issues - no risk assessments, method statements or anything like a SSOW... but as he quickly pointed to me "I and the blokes all have valid CSCS cards".

Posted By Chris Harrison
I work for a MHBG and HBF company where we are currently one of the only companies who can lay claim to being 100% CSCS/CPCS carded, this wasn't through choice as it was forced on us by our parent company, who incidently have not matched their own directive.

that issue aside, the hassle involved with getting all of our own workforce carded was unbelievable as they do not recognise the original city and guilds certificate, although in their own defence, they did when the CSCS scheme started 10 plus years ago. it does not require a lot of effort to identify the most common qualification on a construction site held by tradesmen is the city and guilds certificates, recognised everywhere around the world, except here.

I agree that the scheme is a total money making (for certain companies)farce. the instruction consequently issued by me to the 20 plus site managers on our sites was to ask for a CSCS card and turn away those who do not have them, but do not look to closely at what the card was issued for. I know that on our sites we have tradesmen, quantity surveyors and architects who are using a yellow visitors card, as do our sales staff who live and work on a construction site. I actually have a card as a planning supervisor because the nebosh construction certificate or even the 5 day SMSTS which was started by the NHBC and covers only site health and safety are not recognised!

however the scheme as of a few minutes ago has now issued 1.2 million cards and prior to 2010 most if not all construction sites will require either a CSCS card or one of its affiliates, so I am all for IOSH going the distance to have their own card scheme recognised.

Posted By MS
Chris
yes 1.2 million cards have been issued but how many are the correct card for the trade?

On a MCG audit I recorded one contractor with 55 operatives on site, 54 had general skills cards (for labourers) but they were a cladding company, therefore only one operative had the correct card for his trade.

I also know of a health and safety manager that only has a slinger/signaler card.

Proving that having a card doesn't necessarily mean you're trained to do the job.