Posted By Merv Newman Fire extinguishers have been removed from blocks of flats in bournemouth as, according to risk assessors, they constitute a risk. http://www.timesonline.c...ws/uk/article3525380.ece The supporting arguments are quite good but residents seem a bit unhappy. Please read the article then come back to give your views. Merv

Posted By MP I always thought that FEs were not for "fighting fires" as such, but to aid ones escape and to be used to help to stop a minor fire spreading. Who was the assessor? I would be interested to hear the views of the building's insurers as well. Suprised at views of FRS spokesman though. We are all doomed aren't we? MP

Posted By pluto "Under the Regulatory Reform Fire Safety Order 2005 the managing agents of every private block of flats must hire professional assessors to carry out a risk assessment" Well for a start, that is a load of rubbish! As for the main issue, this is a constant running sore and may well be appropriate in this case. Government advice is that extinguishers should be seen as a means of reducing the risk to others in that they can stop a small fire becoming a big fire. The training issue is a red herring as many extinguishers need little more than the label read to figure out how to use them. So sprightly 103 year old has to watch all her worldly possessions go up in flames because there was no means of fighting that tiny little fire. As long as people are told 'what fires not to try and fight' let them have a go. What a nation of pansies we are becoming. Remember 80% of fires never get reported to the fire service...could any of those be put out with fire extinguishers??

Posted By srd Surely the risks to the person wanting to put out a VERY small fire should be weighed against the risk to the other occupants of the building should the fire take hold. I'm not advocating that untrained people remain in a building to tackle a large fire (which one fire extinguisher would be useless against anyway), but very small fires? If I lived in a block of flats I would most certainly like to have an extinguisher available to assist my means of escape. I too am surprised at the apparent support for this by the Fire and Rescue service. Steve.

Posted By Tabs Paul, your mother's well being would then rely on a functioning fire alarm, her ability to hear it, her ability to fight past any flames she encounters, and the communal stairs not being filled with smoke. I would wager that most senior occupants have precious little spare money to put into extinguishers - and even if they do, would they think to take the extinguisher with them as they leave their flat? Even with your pessimism regarding vandalism (it doesn't seem to have figured in the reasoning within the article, so was it a problem there?) I would suggest that SOME chance of a functioning extinguisher is better than no extinguisher at all. Now, with another hat on - what is there in the communal areas to burn? I would much rather the assessment conclude there was no need because there was nothing to burn - than to repeat the tired excuse of training. I have seen extinguishers used by complete novices to good effect. Yes, there are some occasions that a CO2 could spread a paper fire or a water could spread an oil fire ... but placing foam there means that a novice has an extremely good chance of doing good. Who will give the occupants the advice on extinguisher choice for inside their home? And who will offer to service said extinguishers? It is odd that we don't want to take small risks to combat larger risks. A lot of the TV magazine programmes seem to struggle for content (judging from the drivel I have to put up with) ... perhaps we could engage with them to do some community training? "What to do if .." Five minutes here and there on extinguisher use, escaping fire, electrical safety, driving tips, etc., might be better than hearing about Mrs X and her talking cat!

Posted By Aidan Toner QUOTE>>>>>>>>Residents of Admirals Walk were informed in a letter from their managing agents that “unless all residents are trained to operate the fire extinguishers, there is no legal requirement to maintain these in communal areas of residential blocks”.>>>>>>>>>>>The letter of communication fails to declare the findings of the fire risk assessment.ie The findings of the risk assessment should tell us IF fire suppressant systems ARE or ARE NOT required.???? IF the findings indicate fire suppressant measures are necessary then that requirement cannot be ignored simply because of existing local circumstances(ie in this case a large collective of untrained or untrainable residents) For the sake of debate let's assume these flats already have a history of 'in corridor fires' or such malicious events develop in the future??? Does the bland message from the managing agents.......'everyone cannot be trained so we are not providing extinguishers'........still hold true!!!! I suspect this story is all about the avoidance of extinguisher maintenance costs (by the managing agents) being dressed up as improved evacuation arrangements.Its so sad a fire safety expert in the local fire authority has weighed in behind this twisted penny pinching logic.It would have been more professional for that officer to state he/she agrees or disagrees with the need for fire supression at this location ..end of comment.

Posted By Colin Reeves I think that the whole neds to be assessed against risk (did not want to use the "risk assessment" phrase!!). Who are at risk? How easily will they become aware of any fire? How safe are the escape routes? Is there anywhere they can escape to? etc etc In the industrial situation I work within then fire extinguishers are essential, primarily as the answer to "Is there anywhere they can escape to?" is that there is nowhere safe! This is a situation where up to 90% of the people at risk are untrained public. Colin

Posted By Pete48 Just because we have become used to seeing extinguishers placed in these areas does not make them essential response kit. Without a detailed note of the circumstances it is perhaps imprudent to comment in detail on that case. However, speaking generally, there is after all a sort of least worst choice here. I wouldn't stop to use an extinguisher except where I really had no choice. In such circumstances I idly wonder just how much practical use it might be in either assisting my escape or extinguishing the fire. I have some practical experience of fire fighting in industrial settings so this is not a response from someone who may be frightened of the situation, unlike residents faced with a real fire in their block. I have used a portable extinguisher in real situations only twice in my life. The first, a dry powder type, ended with me being "disappeared" in a cloud of dry powder as the hose burst under pressure before I released the trigger. The second, an old water type, did not have enough pressure to reach the flames! So, perhaps there is enough to challenge their provision, albeit on a sounder footing than the one quoted. And Merv, you know why there are so many in hotels. they are there for the late night revellers to bump into, pinch for late night fun or just take to bed for company. (I kid you not but that is another story) I still wouldn't stop to look for one or use it unless I had no choice. Get out, stay out, be there to watch them put it out.