Posted By Scotty
Hi Jennifer.

As I understand it the regulations as they are at the moment are only applicable to the UK, within UK waters, or on any UK controlled ship, aircraft, or offshore installation.

However, that does not preclude the possibility of liability under the law in which the accident happened and of course, in the UK.

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
Another favourite subject of mine.
Why we ever voted for this I will never know but I can certainly see the day when large organisations choose another economy to work with...based solely on the safety from prosecution under this act. 20 million jobs taken overseas where there is no Corporate Manslaughter?
I love the story about a large organisation who shall remain nameless but who did agree to pay damages and a massive fine almost immediately following a disaster which claimed the lives of quite a few. To this day, despite their willingness to settle so quickly they refuse to admit responsibility or liability for the deaths, claiming that it was no fault of theirs.

Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
Its not the severity of any sentence that will determine this, more likely miscarriages of justice of which there are many in the UK, The Guildford 4 etc.
Having witnessed some of the decisions of our Courts over breaches of H & S legislation I am not convinced that we are right to introduce Corporate Manslaughter. In fact my MD is terrified of the consequences from any breach in Safety legislation and that is not the culture we should have in place.
I do accept that rogue traders need sorting out but honourable mistakes need to be addressed with compassion and skill, not scaremongering and certainly not with prison sentences.

Posted By martin oldroyd
Hi Jennifer

The act covers england, wales, northern ireland and scotland as well as uk territorial waters, uk registered ships, british controlled aircraft and hovercraft and offshore oil platforms.

The question about overseas employee's is a good one as the act is focused around the health and safety system managements of the host organisation so it is my belief that should you lose employee's overseas due to "a gross breach of a relevant duty" then i see no reason why a prosecution should not be brought - in theory.

Gross Beach is defined as conduct falling far below what can be reasonably expectedof the organisation in the circumstances. This would be a question for a jury to decide.

They would consider evidence on compliance with health and safety legislation and the organisational culture. Therefore if you have effective management systems in place there would be little or no problem.

Hi Tony

I note that you say that Corparate manslaughter is your favourite subject. You maybe have been misinformed. There are no prison sentences from this legislation only fines. An Organisation can only be prosecuted under this legislation. An individual can only be prosecuted under other other parts of the safety related Legslative framework.

Hope this helps

Martin

Posted By Jennifer Kelly
Thanks for the responses everyone, interesting to see that the consensus is not total.

Just as a note, the fragile infrastructure of many of the countries that we send the emergencies teams into, means that local regulations do not really factor into our considerations as they are simply not in place.

Regards

Jennifer

Posted By Rob T
Hi Jennifer,

In answer to the direct question - no the Corporate Manslaughter bill will not directly affect you in the circumstances you have described however it may well be referred to as a "standard" in civil actions.

The mainstay of law in those situations will be (as you rightly say) civil duty of care. In replying to your senior management I would tend to concentrate on your duty to train and inform those who are required to go to dodgy places. The best example being the case of Granger Telecom (which was actually and eventually settled out of court) which dealt with the 4 guys who were beheaded by Chechen rebels. The case cost millions in court fees and settlement to the bereaved families.

Although still to be actually tested and precedent set by Court of Appeal, the only criminal specific law that could be applied to your circumstance is the absolute duty to do a risk assessment if the people are setting off from UK soil/have UK contracts/British Nationals.

Please do e-mail me if you want to chat this through or want an example of a specific Hostile Environment risk assessment form.

You can reply through here or go to the International Specialist Group site (Committee members) and use that e-mail address which is better (not allowed to put it here as it contains my company name).

Best regards
Rob Todd CFIOSH
IOSH International Specialist Group
(Champion for Africa and Hostile Environments)