Posted By Jonathan Breeze Different cultural, legal and philosophical traditions Derek. Do a search, it's been discussed many times before. Learn to celebrate the strengths of each system and amend you methods according to the country your company finds itself working in. Vive la différence!

Posted By Barry Cooper Derek I work for a company with several sites in other European countries, and although we have very similar machines (paper) it is the UK ones that have guarded them to meet "EN" Standards. When we have an accident, it is usually a slip, trip, fall, back strain etc. When they have an accident it is serious or even fatal injuries from machinery inward nips etc. It isn't a level playing field, as each country interprets the directives differently, and yes sometimes the UK go overboard, but rather that than maiming employees. It is up to us to ensure appropriate safety measures are implemented, and not go over the top. SFARP Barry

Posted By Jim Masson Morning MT, personally I would blame the insurance companies and the UK's claim culture for the 'excessive' nature of RA's. Instead of trying to advise the workers on safety, we all seem to spend a lot of time trying to keep the company safe from compensation claims. Maybe if our workers had some of the European 'common sense' we would be better received (did you see the Peterhead digger incident on the news last night?). http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...d/north_east/7304734.stm Doesn't matter what training, controls, etc are in place, if folk want to act like idiots they will find a way!

Posted By MT Morning Jim. No, didn't see it on the news, but saw it online this morning. Only in my home town......... what can I say? Someone made that point in another thread, about Britons who seemingly have to prove to themselves that they really will suffer a nasty injury, because there's a sign telling them that this will happen if they poke body part X into machine Y. They have to test it out. Why is that? Hope to return to SnD next week! Yay!

Posted By Derek Carpenter Barry makes an interesting point which raises its own question. An EU Directive is the law throughout Europe. Whilst some countries (like the UK) appear to seem to want to go further, i cannot understand why many other countries do not seem to implement the mimimum legal requirement? I thought the point of the EU was to standardise! Is it not possible that the Directives are not being properly interpreted at all? EU Directives impact on business and the very least we might expect is some common sense in practical life. The rules rule but at times have no relationship to the real world, which EU Directives do recommend is an important factor in implementation. Where risk is low you do not need a sledgehammer.

Posted By Derek Carpenter Its possible i am in a minority in having concerns but it also seems clear from discussions on forums like this, that not enough attention is given to the background of Directives. This is perhaps natural since everyone seems to focus on implementation as described by enforcing bodies.Following the "rules" is giving health practitioners a bad name to the outside world.Following orders is the perception people have of health practitioners. EU Directives set out a clear legal framework about the requirements that must be met to regulate. In essence there is necessity placed on burden of proof of real risk. We have forgotten this, so Committees act without reference to Directives to regulate every risk they "think" exists, regardless of risks or hazards being unlikely in practical industry situations. The "precautionary principle" has made it easier to regulate anything since it only relies on a group describing themselves as experts! Then its rubber stamped. Then, each country and none worse than the UK, add their spin and hand out the sledgehammer to those who only implement the rule of the Law as they see it. Interestingly there are cases ready to be heard in the courts at EU level to determine if enforcement and implementation has exceeded the powers of Directives. Is it not of interest to reflect on whether Health and Safety is being used to rule people rather than as a set of rules to protect people. Any discussion on this forum reveals so many opinions that i find it worrying that so many variations of implementation might exist, some at least that do not have he weight of law behind them. The common problem is place rules in the hands of people and watch the confusion that arises. A professional body should reflect a harmony of implementation.

Posted By Peter Still Just a thought folks - the UK is, and has been for some time, one of the EU countries with the lowest rate of fatal/serious accidents in manufacturing. Don't know about other sectors but the data is on the HSE's statistics site. When the Machinery Directive came into force, most other EU countries had to raise their standards to match the UK and the Finns, so it is hardly surprising that their enforcement is not so rigid as ours - there's a culture change needed. Oh and by the way don't mention Germany to me - I'm often appalled at their low standards of machine safeguarding!