Posted By Melanie Fellows Yesterday one of our employees had a fit whilst at work. He was lying down when it started, but the fit caused him to fall down some stairs banging and cutting his head. He was taken by ambulance to hospital and put on two drips. He discharged himself at 4 a.m. this morning and walked home. He then presented himself for work today. Obviously we did not allow him to start, and I took him for a full medical examination. The doctor wouldn't sign him back to work as he wants to run more tests tomorrow. My question is - is this reportable if he's off for more than three days? - I would think not, but would feel better if someone could clarify the situation for me. Also, any other advise on the matter would be gratefully received. Thanks, Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows I'm not involved in the sick pay side of things, so I don't know. There could be a problem there though - he only started with us on Monday. Any thoughts? Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows Unfortunately he didn't declare any pre-existing conditions. He is by trade a blaster (metal grit). We are unsure at this point why he was lying down - he could have been preparing for work underneath where he was, but at this time he doesn't know what happened or why he lay down - we do know that he didn't fall down though. Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows He failed to disclose on our questionnaire. Mel

Posted By Robert. Maybe the poor guy wan't even aware of a pre-existing condition. Why so quick to judge? HR issue

Posted By Melanie Fellows Good call. But he has fitted in the past (next of kin disclosed this). However, I don't know the full facts yet. I'm not on a witch hunt, I only want to clarify whether to report or not! Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows Mitch, Yes I have - very unpleasant. He also works at height from a MEWP. Hence the full medical report etc. Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows Beautifully put Claire - Thanks!!! Mel

Posted By Zyggy Turek Ken, In this case we need to ask a very basic question - what are the HSE/LA's hoping to achieve from RIDDOR reports? The answer is, & always has been, even in the pre-RIDDOR days of NADOR (I suddenly feel very old!)to try & prevent recurrences & highlight work related accidents. In this particular case, it appears that the work activity had no bearing on the incident, i.e. an act or omission on the part of the employer, & as such, not reportable.

Posted By Paul Duell Ken I've read RIDDOR 3(2) carefully as you suggest. It specifies "out of or in connection with work", so where do you get the non-occupational medical condition bit from? As others have said, I think that unless the fit was triggered by occupational factors, NOT reportable.

Posted By Mitch Melanie, It would have been quicker to ring HSE and ask or just report it, the nature of the incident will not affect your companies record/stat's. Mitch

Posted By ClaireL Edward, He fell down the stairs because he had a fit! Stairs are allowed you know! I've had enough RIDDORS land on my desk in the past to say that you are wrong, the HSE would not be interested. They have more RIDDORS than they know what to do with. They would look at it and say 'Why has this been reported? This isn't a RIDDOR' and promptly give it back to admin as 'not for investigation' for filing on the company file.

Posted By Gary Malone My apologies, Friday not Thursday as the accident happened tuesday not monday as I wrongly assumed.

Posted By Edward Shyer Hi Mel, You stated: “but the fit caused him to fall down some stairs banging and cutting his head.” How do you know this? Was he working near the steps as part of a work activity? You stated: “He is by trade a blaster (metal grit). We are unsure at this point why he was lying down - he could have been preparing for work underneath where he was, but at this time he doesn't know what happened or why he lay down -we do know that he didn't fall down though.” Was this person working alone? Were there any witnesses? Have you had the chance to talk to the guy again? Once you have the answers (which should be part of your accident investigation) to these then you should be in a position to decide on whether to report or not. Regards Ted

Posted By Pete48 You may all wish to visit this HSE link and read down to about halfway down in the section headed "What employee accidents need to be reported" and then under a sub section headed "non-reportable". http://www.hse.gov.uk/airtransport/riddor.htm I am sure the simple statement in this guidance document will be repeated in other bits of the HSE guidance. This was just the first I found.

Posted By Gary Malone Adrian, Thank you, I am aware of what the regulations state. I have clearly stated that I assume that the IP, was working. (However quite clearly for this specific question by Mel there are a few crucial facts missing, requiring investigation, prior to making a decision as to whether reportable, however on the information to hand and the assumptions that I have stated that have been made, my opinion is as stated) As for the scenario described a full HSE investigation was undertaken and further action advised. Gary

Posted By Melanie Fellows Just to fill in a few gaps/ answer some questions; He was not lone working - our blasters have a "pot man" with them at all times. The pot man witnessed him lying himself down (and looked after him whilst he was fitting). The injured man was not actually working at the time (he was preparing for it), which is where a degree of confusion arises as we don't know if he lay down because he knew he was about to fit or if he was checking a position for working purposes. The man remembers nothing of the incident, and he is adamant that he is fit and healthy to work. The only thing that he has said is that he hadn't eaten at all that day. The incident wasn't caused by a failure of any equipment (it was all brand new and has since been inspected), plus he wasn't using anything at the time. He was on a walkway at the top of some stairs, and lay down well away from the them, but the fitting motion caused him to move towards them and down them. He had a half hour break two hours before the incident. He was only setting up the job - in total only approx. 20 minutes of blasting had been completed that day. I don't think it is reportable - he wouldn't have fallen down the stairs had he not fitted, and he is not off work due to any injuries, he is off because we do not know what caused the fit and whether it is likely to re-occur, so therefore is not safe to operate any equipment at this time. (But I'll ring to make sure!!!) Thanks to everyone for their input. Mel

Posted By Melanie Fellows Not that we know yet - hopefully we'll find out later today though. Mel

Posted By chris1595 Hi, This might seem a far too simple solution, but why don't you just ring HSE infoline and ask? c.

Posted By ClaireL ....because the info line is rubbish, manned by satf who don't seem to know a thing.