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Posted By GJB Davis
Hi all,
A client of our's does not consider a manual handling team lift exercise to move a pressure washer up wooden stairs suitable and has asked us to look at other means. This is not a problem as I would prefer to use mechanical lifting (for which the client will pick up the bill). However, in their correspondence to us they made the following statement;
"The HSE frown upon anyone climbing stairs normally without having three point contact at all times."
Ladders - understandable, stairs!!?
Has anyone heard of this HSE frowning or is this an urban myth?
Regards
Giles
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Like yourself I only know of the three point contact associated with ladders. Although it could be argued that the use of a handrail when walking stairs is the sensible thing to do. Clearly not an option when carrying bulking items.
An urban myth.
Ray
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Posted By Haggis JM
Most of the Oil & Gas sector companies insist that you use the handrail when using stairs - and that is in the offices!
Still causes me a few problems, as I came from a chemical background - don't touch the handrail, you don't know what is on it!!!
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Posted By Mitch
Better to be frowned upon than pounced upon, does this relate to terminology? A friendly fabricator recently asked me to distinguish between stairs and ladders. He is manufacturing and installing walkways specified by hie client. They are using "ships ladders" (his terminology) for access, however his client refers to them in documentation as stairs!
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Posted By Gareth W Jones
I have recently had a similiar problem, we have just moved into new offices and there are stairs leading from the reception up to the first floor, I thought a sign at the top and bottom saying "please keep one hand on the handrail when using the stairs" or something similiar, then I realised with only one handrail and not enough space to fit another, this would cause an issue if employees met on the stairs!! I was also told that employees do not like running there hands over the stainless hand rail because of germs?
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Posted By Brian Hagyard
Don't know if its fact or fiction, but having slipped on stairs where there was no apparent defect, was glad I could at least grab the hand rail. If I had both hands full could easily have been a different outcome. I would always discourage tasks that require you to use stairs with both hands full. Also not to carry bulky items that stop you seeing your feet.
Brian
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Posted By Tabs
I recently had a discussion with one of the HSE Labs chaps who had spent the last three years looking at slips and trips, and he clearly told me that handrails were there to be grabbed rather than held.
Of course, you need a hand free to do that - I normally "shadow" the rail - my hand hovers above the rail as I descend, but sometimes is used to pull me up as I ascend.
A very light load might offer the opportunity to grab the rail. A heavier load is less likely to because of a reluctance to let it tumble down the stairs.
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Posted By Colin Reeves
Mitch "They are using "ships ladders" (his terminology) for access, however his client refers to them in documentation as stairs!"
I believe the essential difference is in the angle of the item - ship's ladders are generally far steeper than would be allowed under Building Regs. Oh, and if fitted on a ship, the ladder is likely to be moving up, down, round, sideways - and be wet!!
Colin
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Posted By Fornhelper
Walking up / down stairs in good condition (stairs as well as person!!) .....no significant risk...
Three points of contact!!.....I'm in the urban myth camp on this one :-)
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Posted By Paul Cornet
To maintain three points of contact at all times when ascending/descending stairs you would need to be holding onto a hand rail with each hand, we break contact with our feet when going up and down stairs.
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Posted By Halesowen Baggie
Do we need to instruct people on how to walk up and down stairs?
What does the Acop to the management regs say with regard to risk assessment...things associated with life in general can be ignored.
Obviously if the stairs are in a poor condition or have other significant risks associated with them eg they are slippy due to contamination then that's a different matter.
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Posted By Barry Cooper
We have a policy of always holding the hand rail when ascending or descending stairs. Twice we have incidents where the person has slipped, but because they were holding the handrail, they managed to prevent falling.
One of them was me, and I am convinced that if I had not been holding the handrails, I would have fallen down them, and suffered serious injury. So I always encourage it.
On "ships" stairs and machines we use the trailing hand technique
We have stuck signs on all handrails at the top and bottom reminding people to use them.
Barry
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Posted By Merv Newman
I don't know if the HSE frowns, but holding or at least "trailing" the handrail is very good practice. Let's not be pedantic about precisly three at every instant. We know it's not possible, just that the sentiment is good.
Slips and trips on stairs occur frequently. Who amongst you could cast the first stone ? (wot, me ? Never)
Falling down stairs has been described as "throwing yourself over a lowish Beachy Head onto the rocks below"
After 25 years with an unequal opportunities employer (be safe or be gone) I can't not use the handrail. If there isn't one on my side then I trail my hand down (or up) the wall.
Merv
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Posted By Colin Reeves
Merv, I think you miss Barry's point.
Going down a "ships ladder" type of stairway either you should go down backward, with at least one hand on the handrail in front of you and, therefore, above your head or, if going down facing forward, one hand should be on the handrail behind and above you.
In these ways, if the feet go out from under you, the hand and arm are in the right angle to grip and hold you immediately.
Colin
(Too many years at sea, I know about these ladders!!)
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Posted By dave burrage
Colin
How can you go down a ships ladder facing forward with one hand above and behind you? I have just tried to do that and i think i've dislocated my shoulder!
I always went down them with both hands on the handrails and both feet off the ground (wheee!)
Dave
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Posted By Colin Reeves
Practice dear boy, practice!!
Colin
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Posted By Mitch
Giles,
You have mail.
Mitch
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Posted By Merv Newman
Colin,
I was talking stairs, not ladders. And my grandad taught me the "two hands no feet" technique. But I preferred the "face the steps, two hands on the rails and fribble your toes down the steps" (sounds like a clicker on a bike wheel) taught by my uncle.
Merv
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Posted By DavidW
Don't know too much about ships ladders/stairs etc but when my little boy started going up the house stairs on his own (although watched very closely)he quite naturally maintained three points of contact. Keep meaning to film him and use it some of my training sessions
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