Posted By water67.
hi, really can't see how your idea would work. Best will in the world it would take too long to get your people on site to safely enter the property. We have an alert system. if a smoke detector goes off in any residents flat/room it automatically indicates the name of the complex, the room number and name of the person to a 24/7 maned base. They contact the fire service immediately we also have a mobile team of staff who will attend should any assistance be required post the incident - they would not go in to the complex unless given the OK by the fire service. Advice to residents, with obviously the exception of the flat room at the seat of the fire, is to stay in their flat, we believe that is the safest place.
hope this helps.

Posted By water67.
Hi, fire service in our area see stay put as best option. Never heard of fire service "refusing" to get involved in an evacuation. Usually they make it clear on arrival that they then take charge of the situation including evacuation if necessary. Also seems crazy to me that they would expose the brigade to such adverse PR should anything go wrong. I would challenge them and insist they put this in writing to you. My guess is they wont and may well back off.

Posted By Ashley Wood
The reason the fire services do not like stay put policies is primarily due to the condition of some sheltered schemes. A lot of schemes that I have assessed have breached fire barriers above fire doors and no smoke seals and flat doors that would not hold back smoke and fire. This is the reason it is easier for the fire service to say they are not happy with the policy.

My advise is, address their concerns regarding the passive measures in place and upgrade them. The passive elements should have been picked up in your fire risk assessment if the person doing it were competent. I always advise my clients to tell the residents to dress upon hearing the alarm and sit by a window with the curtains open. This way the fire service can see them, see who is in the building and then if they need to evacuate the residents are dressed ready for the weather. Let me know if you need more help.

Posted By Lisa_
Hi Jojo,

I am in the same boat. Housing association that covers most of the southeast and London. Each brigade have their own take on whether they agree or will support a stay put policy or not. I thought we were nearly there until this week when I got a letter from one of the Essex services stating that they will not support a stay put and that we should increase labour to accommodate the requirement. This would result in a minimum of 6 people being paid to sleep in at night (5:1 ratio) . Who can afford that level of care for their family? I know I can't. I've got a fire officer in east london who would prefer me to evacuate customers will mental health problems without anyone to sheepard them - I have warned him that they will probably jump in his shiny red fire engine and drive away but it didn't get me anywhere.

The community guides depends on the category of care that you provide, the majority of my schemes don't fall into one area and its a nightmare!

There are 2 groups of H&S profs that work in housing that have got this one on their agenda as we are all in the same boat. Hopefully some sense will prevail.

You are not alone.

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Always a difficult one this and it does depend on the mobility of the persons involved. As a general rule the Fire Service tends to the view that those who can exit safely should do so but the essential characteristic of these scheme buildings should be to ensure at least a 1 hour integrity of the appartment separation from the common areas. As long as the buildings are within reasonable storey numbers I have yet to encounter a service that rejects the fire strategy. Obviously if they claim that segregation is being breached the Fire Authority can issue notices against the landlord. Without such a procedure being in motion for your premises I fail to see how individual officers are justifying decisions.

Your local scheme maanger does need to monitor the use and abuse of fire segregation and you do need to act against those causing problems, but this should not be a major issue.

Bob