Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Stephen Gandy
Please find enclosed an extract from a pre construction information pack my company sends to all prospective Principal Contractors. I am a CDM-C and have had concerns for some time about this wording however since the introduction of a new project manger who also has shown some concerns I have raised the issue with my employer. I believe it is in contravention of the CDM regulations. My concerns have been dismissed. Therefore I am asking you to clarify that if I am to continue to include this wording and implement the requests which also are made contractual, which in turn means in my opinion that the client then pays twice for the same service, am I acting in compliance with the CDM Regulations? Since highlighting these concerns things have not gone to well for me.
I have not had a reply to this sent to hse help line. however things have gone worse my employer has come down on me very heavy.
This is what is in the pre construction pack
During the course of the Construction phase the Principal Contractor shall provide, compile and present in an approved manner the necessary documents for the “File”, as required by the CDM Regulations 2007 and as further noted in this Information (see Section E) and noted in the contract documents. It will be the Principal Contractor’s responsibility to fully prepare the “File” which is to be approved by the CDM-C prior to issue. In the event that the Principal Contractor fails to provide the “File” in time and in an approved manner then the Employer, at his discretion, may withhold and or deduct payments to have the “File” completed by others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
I had a similar issue a couple of months ago but what made it worse is that I prepared the file and paid the CDMC 2 grand to hand it to the client. It is not the cdmc role to prepare the file but it is his job to ensure it is prepared, which is typical of H & S wording. A bit like not needing a survey re asbestos but how do you prove you are managing it without a survey?
For what it is worth I believe the PC should be in control of information related to the end user including safety data and the cdmc should keep his nose out...but they need to justify their role.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mal
Morning guys,
Stephen, dont like that wording, and im surprised that some of the PC's will agree to that statement once they have received the pre construction information. The PC will produce , as they have always done, the building manuals or O&M manuals as they are sometimes referred to. I have to disagree with Tony, it is the CDMC's duty to prepare the health and safety file. Any CDMC worth their salt will have developed a relationship with the PC, will have agreed the format and content of the health and safety file early on and liased on this very issue with the PC soon after the PC appointment.
Far from justifying themselves as CDMC, they are actually complying with the regs, assisting the client as they are supposed to do, and working in a colloborative manner with the PC, just as was the intention behind CDM 2007.
Best of luck with things at your place Stephen.
Regards to all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
You obviously dont work with the CDMC's I work with. I know the stereotypical thing shouldnt be counted but let me give you a very recent example. Major Company provides CDMC for 21 million refurb. He arrives on site on day one(the old planning supervisor days) with pre construction info. When I read it I find that it as much use as a chocalate fireguard, absolutely no mention of asbestos or lack of previous maintenance. 11 months later he turns up on site to conduct some kind of audit???
The job is near completion and he rings me up to put together O and M's and send it to him. Obviously it would be simplistic to say that it is his job to put together the Health & Safety file but it is not his role. it clearly states that his job is to ensure it is prepared, and that doesnt mean he has to prepare it, which is his get out card.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mal
Tony, sorry to hear about that experience, as a practising CDMC i have to admit that this kind of thing did, and still does to a degree, happen and it doesnt put the credibility of the CDMC in a good light.
However, there are an awful lot of organisations providing the CDMC role as it is intended, in a professional, effective, proactive manner. I hope i fall in to that category, only my clients and the construction professionals i have worked with could answer that one though!
With regard to the health and safety file, it is the CDMC's duty to prepare it, it is an explicit duty, the word ensure has been removed from the regs and ACOP specifically to remove the uncertainty over the productiion of the health and safety file.
Hope your experiences of CDMC's are better in the future Tony, regards, Mal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By willhiem
From one or two things i've read, taking up your point Mal, it is the the CDMC who has to prepare the safety file and o & m manuals, but i think where the confusion arrises is that there have been a few agreements between the different representative bodies (upon discussion of the Regs) which provide for the PC to in essence provide the main body and contents of the file, as they will have more contact etc with suppliers / contractors etc, then on practical completion, this is handed over to the CDMC to who compliles the whole lot together along with the various emergency plans, drawings and whatever other information is needed. So i guess the PC produces a draft file and then the CDMC adds informations and refines and compiles the whole lot. Hope that makes sense, i'd check with the various representative bodies first though before you go taking my word from it, i cant remember where i saw the documents.
On the whole CDMC thing, i do agree in the past it was awfully shabby (i remember reading various plans submitted to our PC and it described overhead powerlines on site, though all it said was -not sure if they're present, site visit required - continued on this for almost every answer), but what i've seen lately has been pretty good, i think the standard is pretty high because its become more competitive as well as the consequences of the regs and people are more aware of the role so spoofers arent tolerated as much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Stephen,
Your answer is in paragraph 106 of the ACOP 'Managing Health and Safety in Construction'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mitch
Beat me to it ALS, I was trying to think of a smart _ _ _ _ (hangman!) remark for a Friday!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ron Hunter
Too much emphasis here on the "Project" as opposed to the "Structure".Files have to be maintained for Structures, and a lot of CDM Notified Projects are on existing Structures
O&M is not of direct relevance to CDM intentions for H&S Files.
Clients may already have an Asbestos Risk Register.Are pre-construction instructions clear on how info is communicated to keep that up to date?
There are many more minor Projects (not notifiable status) which can significantly impact on H&S Files/ACM Registers (CDM is silent in that regard).
All this debate about role conflict between PC and CDM-C,however the duty to MAINTAIN the File rests with the Client?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.