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Posted By DaveCole
Hi All.
I have recently started working for a new company that uses a wide variety of lift trucks ranging from small fork lifts to container handlers and tractor units. The culture on site is to leave keys in the machines at all times to enable the following shift to use. We have 3rd party drivers in and out all day plus endless visitors to the site. I have advised that this is not a good idea but they do not seem to think it is very important. Am I over reacting or has anyone got anything that may make them see the seriousness of unauthorised people using their machines. Any feedback greatfully received
Thanks Dave
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Posted By Andrew M
I had your problem. If I see an unattended FLT with the key left in it, it goes in my pocket.
and then they have the problem of finding it. Which is not always easy. Didn't take long....
Andrew
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Posted By Eddie Campbell
You are certainly not overreacting by any means. It’s simply good working practice and a safe system of work to remove the keys from the vehicle to a place of safe keeping at the end of the shift.
Part of the operators initial and refresher training courses that I have been involved with in the past always discussed the importance of key removal for security and safety reasons.
Key removal is also mentioned in HS (G) 6 HSE guidance on the safe use of forklifts.
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Posted By Steve Derby
I had a similar problem at a previous Company, until an impatient Lorry driver unloaded his own vehicle on a public footpath during a lunch break!!
Taking keys out of vehicles did cause us some operational difficulties because everyone was used to keys being in the vehicles.
At the time I moved on we were looking at fitting key-code pads instead of keys.
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Posted By DaveCole
Thanks for the advice thus far. I like the sound of keep taking the keys out if I see them. People will be 'up in arms' but they may get fed up chasing me for keys
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Posted By MT
If during an inspection I see unattended vehicles with the keys left in them, then this will be reported as a contravention of PUWER Reg 28(a) which states that self-propelled work equipment must have facilities for preventing it being started by an unauthorised person.
Oh no! Look at that - I'm one of those awful people who quote regs! :-)
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Posted By Mitch
In addition your insurance will insist on 2 sets of keys in the event of a vehicle theft!
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Posted By Lilian McCartney
Many years ago, before I was a H&S Adviser, an HSE Inspector came into our premises and noticed that the key to the forklift wasn't just in the machine it was tied to the steering wheel! He was 'not amused'!
Needless to say we cut the string and took the key away.
This was long before EC based regs.
Lilian
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Posted By Chris Packham
Whilst I agree in principle that keys should be removed there are circumstances where this may not be the best answer.
When working in an oil terminal I found that the rule on site was (a) always to reverse park and (b) to leave the keys in the vehicle.
The reason was that in an emergency the vehicles could be moved instantly to limit damage or to enable people to get clear of the danger zone. However, this was a closed site, so unless suitably trained, no-one was allowed to be unaccompanied.
I think this illustrates that there is often no 'blanket' procedure that covers all environments and situations.
Chris
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Posted By steven n
Before you do remove any keys, make sure the FLT is in a safe position and not blocking any access/egress
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Posted By jayjay
Dave !
When they are trained to operate the FLT they are both encouraged and shown that removal of the keys are best practice. Some of the other advisors are spot on too ! Remove the keys, put them in a nice pile on your desk and when they come looking for them and ask which set are theirs just say 'Dunno'. They won't do it again trust me. I ended up on a Construction site with 26 sets of keys once - dumpers,mini diggers, large excavators, telescopic rough terrains. Took them ages to work that one out.
Regards, JJ
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Drivers won't thank you for quoting PUWER at them but,as has been said, removing the keys works wonders; it works for me, every time.
Paul
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Posted By DaveCole
Continued thanks for all your advice. Seems to be along the same lines. All our machines have designated parking bays away from entrances/exits or where they would cause obstruction so the only real reason for the keys being left in is to make it easier for themselves. Not really a good reason. Have a feeling I may not be able to enjoy your colourful discussions on this site soon as my desk disappears in a pile of shiny keys !!!
Dave
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Posted By GeoffB4
Our recommendation to clients is to issue the drivers with their own personal keys which are kept on the drivers own key ring - they always remove them when leaving the vehicle. It has a 100% success rate.
You seem to have a lot of vehicles that all drivers can use so I suppose this solution may not work if there are a variety of keys in use.
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Posted By water67.
Hi just an addition, if you check you will find a number of instances when unauthorised and untrained people have accessed vehicles particularly forklift trucks and been injured or caused injury to others as well as property damage. If my memory serves we well there has been at least one instance when a young worker took a forklift truck for a joy ride around a site .. had a fatal accident. Thus removing keys when not in use is a sensible and reasonable precaution
Cheers
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Posted By DaveCole
Is there anywhere I can find reports on such incidents or does anyone have any examples. Thanks Dave.
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Posted By Pete48
I can quote an example from my own experience. A large side loading FLT was habitually left with the keys in.
A 13 year old walked into the yard and took it for a joyride and the first the manager knew of this was when the local constabulary knocked on the door to say that it had been stopped approaching the M62 on the slip road, had he "lost" his FLT and did he know where it was going!!!
It suddenly became possible to keep the factory going without leaving the keys in the FLT. These simple, dare I say it common sense rules, have been around for years and for good reasons. But that is the trouble with common sense, it grows old:):)
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Posted By DaveCole
Sounds like they should have given this kid a job..... (sorry, couldn't resist.) It seems from the responses that you have all given me that I was clearly not over reacting and this issue is not an isolated one for my place of work.
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Posted By David Bannister
Around 9 years ago a Kitchen/Bathroom Co used a contractor to move goods from its factories to its retail outlets. Contractor arrived at lunchtime, shop receiving was "closed" so used shop's FLT to unload worktops, load toppled, fatally crushing drivers mate (in the literal sense too).
Prosecution in Reading Crown Court, guilty pleas under HASAWA S2/PUWER for allowing a FLT to be used without authority. £25K fine plus £25K costs plus all the associated trauma with a fatality. Contractor was self-employed and was not prosecuted (but lost his partner).
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Posted By Dave Dowan
Hi Dave
I agree, you are not overreacting.
3 years ago we had a site visit from an EHO, she placed an improvement notice on us for NOT control FLT keys
Regards Dave
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Posted By jayjay
Was there a news article the other week regarding a dumper that had been taken from the front of a construction site and the young driver damaged several cars ? I think i recall something along those lines.
Have a good weekend/bank holiday guys/gals
Regards, JJ
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Posted By Merv Newman
Another reason for taking the keys out : one company I know "lost" a FLT. They think it went out in the back of a delivery lorry. Since they have about 40 deliveries each day they ouldn't domuch about it.
Merv
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Posted By PL
Agree with all the comments above....
One place I worked, a young packaging operative decided to "move" the FLT as it was in the way. She'd no training or experience but the key was left in.
She moved it straight into the warehouse gas heater causing a full evacuation and three fire tenders.
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
We currently have the potential for a £250,000 compensation claim due to keys having been left unguarded in a vehicle on site, used by a contract worker, and the ensuing accident possibly prohibiting any return to work for the injured party !
CONTROL YOUR ACCESS TO KEYS AND DRIVERS' TRAINING FOR THE SAFETY OF OTHER WORKERS ON SITE !!!!
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Posted By Glyn Phillips
MT
"If during an inspection I see unattended vehicles with the keys left in them, then this will be reported as a contravention of PUWER Reg 28(a) which states that self-propelled work equipment must have facilities for preventing it being started by an unauthorised person."
Have had a look as I didn't recognise this requirement. PUWER does not have a reg 28(a). Last regulation is 27. Have checked the Statute Law Database just in case I was wrong.
At the risk of making myself look silly, could you clarify where it states these requirements for self-propelled work equipment. Is it the ACOP?
GP
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Posted By Glyn Phillips
Sorry all. Have found reg 28(a). The text quoted is from the ACOP of PUWER 98..
GP
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Posted By MikeP
We had that problem with our fork lifts. The company got round it by isuuing ALL authoised drivers only a set of keys for each truck. The keys were numbered so that any loss or abuse could be traked to the relevant operator.
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Posted By John A Wright
MT and Glyn,
RE: PUWER Reg 28, "a contravention of PUWER Reg 28(a) which states that self-propelled work equipment must have facilities for preventing it being started by an unauthorised person"
An FLT is NOT self-propelled, it needs to be DRIVEN (with self-propelled the machine has it's own motor, switch on and it runs, whereas an FLT requires the driver to operate pedals).
With regard to removing keys, what you should quote is the recommendation in HSG6 Section 71 (do's and don'ts of FLTs)
John W
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Posted By Pete Sutton
When i took my NEB Gen, the trainer told us a story of a telehandler driver who parked his maxhine up onm site, leaving the keys in the ignition and went outside the site and sat in his van to eat his dinner. He had left the machine parked on a hosepipe. The guy working indoors with the hose came outside, looked for the driver and couldnt find him so decided to move the telehandler himself. Unskilled, he shot forward and tipped the telehandler over, the boom going through a side wall and crushing one side of a van parked outside. In the van was certain telehandler driver, left holding a half eaten sandwich and wearing brown pants. i actually saw the picture to back it up. Tried to blag a copy of the photo, but to no avail. I use this story when i pull one of my staff up for leaving keys in...works great...
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Posted By C.J.
John W,
Eh! a FLT not self propelled, I think you might want to review that statement mate.
Read reg 28.
Regards
CJ
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