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#1 Posted : 13 May 2008 16:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tracey C Hi I wonder if somebody could give me their thoughts please. We provide student accommodation across the UK and we have a policy that all windows are to be kept on the restrictors to avoid students falling, pushing each other out of windows and throwing items at passers by. We have stood by our policy but today a student has allegedly phoned the HSE to inform them that the temperacture in her room was 29 degrees and the HSE allegedly said that it should not be over 24 degrees. I didn't know that there was an upper limit? Has anybody any suggestions. We do however listen to individual cases and if a student has asthma or bronchial problems with a doctors note we take the restrictors off but they have to sign and code of conduct. Thanks T
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#2 Posted : 13 May 2008 17:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By MP Tell the student to buy a fan. I don't think the Workplace Regs apply to rented domestic type accomodation such as yours. If your students have a history of lobbing things out of windows I'd keep them restricted. I'd maybe move asthmatics to the ground floor before removing the restrictors. Ring the HSE, see what they say. http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/temperature.htm
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#3 Posted : 13 May 2008 17:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi It is difficult to provide advice etc without knowing the detailed dimensions from the floor level up to the window sill and the size of the opening, the ease or difficulty of falling down etc. Why waste energy and use a fan when there is a possibility of natural ventilation. Not an easy one!
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#4 Posted : 13 May 2008 17:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alan Haynes You posted;- "We provide student accommodation across the UK and we have a policy that all windows are to be kept on the restrictors to avoid students falling, pushing each other out of windows and throwing items at passers by." How often did any of the stated actions occur before restrictors were fitted? Or are you just playing safe? Has a proper risk assessment been done?
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#5 Posted : 13 May 2008 19:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Bannister Tracey, if you have decided that the risk of students falling from the unrestricted windows is too high, stick to your guns. By restricted I assume you mean that there is some opening possible for ventilation but insufficient for students to throw stuff or themselves through. In a couple of weeks they will mostly be away anyway, some to very hot and humid climates where local H&S standards are a joke. I would discount the HSE story. My vague memories of student life sadly do include one colleague jumping to his death whilst under the influence of a mind-altering substance, together with a whole host of other activities that with hindsight and the benefit of acquired sense were plain stupid. More recent tales from my children merely confirm that students will get up to a vast range of activities of which risk-averse parents would be horrified.
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#6 Posted : 13 May 2008 19:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT Hi Tracey Lets be clear here, the 24c is a recommendation by the World health organisation and that is a 'suggestion' as an upper limit, the HSE should have made that clear, (this is assuming it is a work place and for the sake of endless argument we will say that it is, on the basis that it is a commercial enterprise, but to be absolutely precise this is not so as I feel certain you will agree in this instance. The Government has been campaigned against for years to agree an upper limit, the workplace regulations relating to an indoor workplace say:- Regulation 7(1) "During working hours, the temperature in all workplaces inside buildings shall be 'reasonable'. "We are not going to adopt the WHO recommendation, over our dead bodies will an absolute upper limit be set, " was the gist of the response when presented to the House of Lords. Having to interpret an ACoP is ridiculous, for it is supposed to be there to be an interpretation of the regulations, anyway, 'an acceptable zone of thermal comfort for most people in the UK lies roughly between 13°C (56°F) and 30°C (86°F), with acceptable temperatures for more strenuous work activities concentrated towards the bottom end of the range, and more sedentary activities towards the higher end.' All the above of course is based upon a workplace; if twere me I may look at ways to allow further partial opening of the windows or make other suggestions that are not printable on this forum. Thermal Comfort in the Workplace HSG194, ISBN 0717624684 may assist, or, HSG132, Sick Building Syndrome. I think I may tell them to stop moaning, much warmer conditions are bound to be around the corner, and for the record, it is not a workplace; really, it's not. http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/temperature.htm All the best CFT
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#7 Posted : 13 May 2008 21:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete48 And don't let us forget that measured air temperature, probably on an uncalibrated thermometer "borrowed" from a mate or the classroom wall, and taken at one point in a room at an unknown time of the day is about the roughest measure you could think of to determine the comfort of that space. Humidity and air flow are other important components in determining a "comfort" level. The aspect of the room south facing etc also impacts on the temperature profile during any 24 hour period. So, even if we accept that the HSE made such a statement about 24 degrees C, it means very little at all. Imagine for a moment that the temp was 24 for 15 minutes at 1430 and then think about it being that between 0230 and 0730. Comfort? As far as I am aware a temp of 24 C in itself is not outwith the thermal comfort zones, subject to humidity and air flow, for sedentary activity. Ooh did I mean students just sit around all day, of course not:) Heat and vent is a specialist area. I would talk to someone in that field for more specific and focused advice if you are worried about it. And disclaimer, I am not that specialist.
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#8 Posted : 14 May 2008 08:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tracey C Hi All Many thanks for the sound information and advice. Yes it is a difficult one and over the years i have been involved with students falling to their death and the heartache it involves. Cheers Tx
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#9 Posted : 14 May 2008 08:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Jerman Let's not lose sight of the personal safety issue here. Female students on the ground floor with their windows wide open at night? Remember that the restrictors keep people out as well as in. Hmm. A case of one control introducing a new hazard. Chris Jerman
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#10 Posted : 14 May 2008 09:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs Students sitting on window sills four floors up drinking beer. Summer school students (14 yrs old) crossing from one room to another along ledges two floors up (above spearhead iron railings). The first led to a stiff letter to all, the second led to restrictors being fitted. Anyone removing the restrictors were thrown out of accommodation on first offence. Sadly the restrictors did not save the summer school student running from room to room using the beds as trampolines, from going head first through a closed window, two floors up. Thankfully, he escaped with broken leg. And cuts. Keep the restrictors on, inform the student to study in the air conditioned library (assuming it is) or outside, in the shade, perhaps?
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#11 Posted : 14 May 2008 11:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Colin Reeves off the wall> Relocate all students to Shetland - no problem with high temperatures ..... Colin
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#12 Posted : 14 May 2008 15:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Anthony Edwards Hotel chain in Scotland fined around 200k I seem to remember due to two people falling from windows when restrictors were removed
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#13 Posted : 14 May 2008 17:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By SWS Similar to the comment above, a well known large UK hotel group were fined heavily when a client committed suicide by jumping out of a 1st or 2nd floor bedroom window. They then had to fit restrictors to every one of their windows {which seems to be a practice which many large hotel groups seem to follow now}. The only question I would ask, is there requirement/need for any of the windows to open at 90 degrees as a fire exit route??
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