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Posted By Ian Aspinall
We conduct refurbishment contracts on council estates. The contracts are notifiable under CDM.
How far is reasonable to have the welfare facilities for the workforce?
The ACOPs to CDM & H&S (Welfare) regs all say "reasonable" or "sufficient" but this can be construed in many ways.
I would think 15 minutes away to be reasonable
What is the general concensus on this?
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Posted By teaboy
i'm finding it difficult to accept that a 15 minute journey to toilet, washing and other welfare facilities is suitable, apart from anything, that could lead to around 90mins of travelling time per man (assuming 3 breaks a day)daily.
if one of these operatives had an accident or spilled a substance on themselves or another, are you saying that it would be 15 minutes in a vehicle before they could clean themselves up?
sorry if i'm missing something here but on the face of it, it seems to be a poor arrangement
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Posted By Mitch
Fully agree with Teaboy 'caught short' and a 15, 15! minute journey??
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Posted By PDA
Welfare facilities for jobs such as those you describe should have welfare facilities 'on the job' i.e. you can get to the toilet within a minute or 2 maximum walk.
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Posted By Konstanty Budkiewicz Ian, Your query arises from Workplace (etc)Para 20. That states that sanitary facilities shall be provided in reasonably accessible places. Link ref: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/s...2/Uksi_19923004_en_2.htmTo support PDA's comment, I recall that some 2 years ago a Scrap Yard owner was fined a considerable amount (£1800 ish), because he failed to provide "facilities": they were some 400m distant from the workplace. Can't remember the case reference. My basic threshold "reasonableness" model is, how far would the the boss or admin worker be content with. Beyond that I would consult with those involved and come to a suitable and sufficient arrangement that is agreed to be "reasonable". Regards Kon CMIOSH
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Posted By Ian Aspinall
I think teaboy is thinking about a building site scenario in the response,
Social housing contracts are within normal housing.
There would be no problem if a substance was accidentally spilled as the projects are within a public domain. There is only a problem with toilet facilities as the projects are conducted within a social environment.
A council estate could be a mile square or even more. Do we require a number of welfare facilities within one project??????
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Posted By Mike Miller
Hi Ian
Having managed social housing sites in the past I can tell you what we did to overcome the problem. first we obtained two empty properties on th estate (voids) removed the baths and revamped the bathroom to form another serparate toilet. As the property was a domestic dwelling it conformed with all the welfare requirements as it had hot and cold running water, electricity and a kitchen. I even had an office in one which was very cosy! There is a cost to this such as rent, electricity etc but actually works out cheaper in the long run.
Then we made a further arrangements with the area housing office to use their facilities.
Finally no tenant would reasonably refuse a worker to use the toilet although you cannot rely on this alone.
Putting a combination unit on the site is an option but vandalism can be a problem with youth who also like to congregate around cabins and cause a nuisance. The residents will hate you for this.
Hope this is useful.
Mike
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Posted By Pat Hannaway
Hi Ian,
HSE have an excellent free publication on this: "Construction Information Sheet 46" Welfare Facilities on Transient sites.
Pat H
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Posted By teaboy
with the greatest respect Ian, regardless of what type of site it is, my humble opinion is that it is wholly unreasonable to expect a person to travel for 15 minutes to access welfare facilities of any type.
we carry out this type of work here and there is no way we would get away with that arrangement with our local authority.
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Posted By philip john
I was at the North Wales Iosh meeting for CDM 2007 last week and this question was brought up to a HSE inspector and he recommended no-more than about 10 minutes.
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Posted By RS1000
I was involved in a large council refurb a few years ago. Because of the probems in the operatives being in remote locations, it was suggested that we have a truck with a portaloo on the back touring the estate on a regular basis. It was a 'P' Reg of course... :)
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Posted By Peter Farrell
If walking at whose pace is the 15 minutes set at, if by vehicle what if no vehicle is availabe. I would not even take the advice of the HSE if they are setting it at 10 minutes. The time wasted by employees going to and from the facilities area surley could be better utilised. If taken the above point that you need to visit the toilet 3 times a day, break X 3 thats three hours before you may require it at other times, workforce hourly rate £20, £60 per person wasted.
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