Posted By andrew morris
I've not posted on here for a while, for various reasons but having read the front cover of the daily mail today, I felt I needed a rant.

The extent to which binmen are now in charge of their own masters, both in terms of their managers and the general public is ridiculous.

Apparently, even though many councils are now giving binmen manual handling equipment (i.e. wheelie bins and greatbig lifting arms), they are unable to move a wheelie bin unless they can do so by two fingers. And this appears to be agreed to by that councils policy!

I guess this is, in part down to union action, but it continues to undermine any of our activities in relation to manual handling or in fact health and safety. Most of my employers business is based on handling, but handling with two hands.

I would challenge IOSH to make a response to this, to challenge the local authorities making these decisions to actually make sensible risk management decisions.

Anyone care to join the challenge to IOSH?

Posted By Ray Hurst
I don’t think there is any need to ask anyone else to join in the challenge to IOSH re this story.

The media team will be all over this story “like a rash” on Monday (for some strange reason IOSH allow them to have the weekend off.) However, it wouldn’t surprise me if one or more of them may have already picked up on it, as I am certain they monitor the “usual suspects” who print this sort of story on a regular basis.

IOSH is committed to debunking the “because of ‘elf and safety” stories whenever and wherever they arise as part of the “Stop taking the myth” campaign. You can clearly see that from looking at the press releases posted on the IOSH website and we have had some measure of success in getting our voice heard.

However, not being a reader of the Daily Mail and only working on the most basic of information as supplied in the posting by Andrew (and from subsequently seeing a small item on both teletext and ceefax) I don’t as yet know enough to be able to comment about its origins, nor I would argue do the media team (yet).

As to the posting made by Ian, I would be very surprised and also very disappointed if any advice along the lines reported that “ …if we can’t pull your wheelie bin using just two fingers, it is too heavy and won’t be emptied” was given by a safety professional particularly an IOSH member. I also note from a little research that the particular council that this story apparently relates to uses a private waste collection company to remove household rubbish.

I can’t see why there should be any question (or surprise) about the Professional Committee investigating a complaint (if one is made) against a member in relation to this story or any other. There is a clear disciplinary procedure which is followed by them under the Professional Code of Conduct, however, I am well aware that I am making suppositions ( a risky thing to do) based on very little information and as yet simply don’t know the provenance of the story, who gave the advice, or even if it was given. After all “why let the truth get in the way of a good story.”

Let’s give the media team some time to investigate and reply, and from knowing them as I do, that response is usually within 24 hours of them becoming aware of it, otherwise there is very little chance of getting any rebuttal printed.


Ray Hurst
President

Posted By Robert K Lewis
I suppose that one can now argue that the council are providing equipment to householders that is not sutable for the intended lifting task. This is what they are after all admitting!

Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Our binmen have a policy of checking the bin contents. Strangely they are know to remove offending objects that should not be in the bin. Great you say exxcept that they often place these items on the verge with the intention that the householder will remove it. Interesting point is that if you remove a single piece of material from a waste receptacle and place it on the highway then you have committed an offence. Private individuals are guilty of littering, organisations are guilty of fly tipping.

I must admit to enjoying getting a supervisor to do a 40 mile round trip to pick up the waste, two plastic and cardboard cake boxes, in order to avoid a report to the EA concerning the activities of council employees. My bins are emptied nowdays without problems. Moral - many councils live in glass houses concerning waste and need to be challenged at every opportunity.

Bob

Posted By Mike Craven
I have to admit that I don't read the Daily Mail. However, I have just read the article referred to in this thread on-line and would make the following observations:

1. Refuse collectors empty millions of bins every day without making news headlines. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time that this type of incident has been reported.

2. The report in the Daily Mail says that, in response to a phone call from the aggrieved resident, the council confirmed that the "two finger test" was in use. (Note: the council spokesperson did not say that this is a rule made up by lazy or bolshy binmen backed-up or encouraged by these horrible trade union militants.)

3. It would appear that the "two-finger test" involves using the index finger of each hand to pull the WHEELED bin along using the two handles. (My large brown wheelie bin was collected this morning and, having heard about this story, I decided to try the "two-finger test". Despite the bin being completely full of hedge and grass cuttings, weeds, and other garden waste, it was fairly easy to wheel the bin along!)

4. The Daily Mail article does not mention a manual handling hazard, but says that the council claims that a bin that is "too heavy" could break the collection truck hydraulic lift system or topple off, injuring one of the refuse collectors. (This may or may not be complete garbage - if you'll pardon the pun - but I know little about hydraulics or the design of refuse collection vehicle lifting gear.)

5. Having been involved in local government in the past, I know that people put all sorts of things in their domestic waste collections - including car batteries, televisions, bricks and other building materials/rubble - all. of which can make the container exceptionally heavy. (I note that the resident in the article only put grass cuttings in the bin. However, I wonder how much a bin crammed full with grass cutting (wet?) would weigh? - would it be exceptionally heavy? - is it the case that the refuse collection company is using the cheapest, most useless lifting gear and refuse collection vehicles? - we don't yet know, do we!!!!)

I am all for IOSH challenging and re-butting media stories and articles that blame "elf and safety" when health and safety isn't the issue, but:

1. Lets get the full facts first and challenge/rebut whatever actually needs to be addressed

2. Let's not use one article from the Daily Mail to launch and add to a thread titled "Binmen!" and go on to (a) attack refuse collectors in general and claim that "the extent to which binmen are now in charge of their own masters, both in terms of their managers and the general public is ridiculous", and (b), indulge in a spot of union bashing.

Let's try and stick to fact, avoid sensationalising one-off events, and behave professionally if we are going to further the cause of sensible health and safety.

Mike