Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Admin  
#1 Posted : 05 August 2008 19:04:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Andrew paul Johnson
HI,
Can anyone give me some advice on entering shallow (600mm) chambers for making cable joint connections. I have viewed the HSE web advice note but would be interested to find out if anyone knows of any documentation specifically regarding this operation or more specifically suitable documentation to show safe emergency procedures (if any).

your guidance in this is much appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation

Andrew
Admin  
#2 Posted : 06 August 2008 09:12:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Adrian
Hi Andrew
The citation describes a confined space as;
"confined space" means any place, including any chamber, tank, vat, silo, pit,
trench, pipe, sewer, flue, well or other similar space in which, by virtue of its enclosed
nature, there arises a reasonably foreseeable specified risk;

You will find this in the confined space regs 1997.
Adrian
Admin  
#3 Posted : 06 August 2008 09:42:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Helen C
Hi there, without viewing your chambers or knowing a great deal about them it is impossible to give a definitive answer.

There is no official documentation specifically for working in shallow chambers (that I know of) other than the National Occupational Standard for Working in Confined Spaces in the Water Industry Occasional Guidance Note.

Their classification, NC1, is defined as...
"Low risk shallow entry with adequate natural or mechanical ventilation, where access is simple and unobstructed and there is no likely risk of flooding e.g. meter pits, valve chambers, booster-pumping stations, PRV chambers."

Typically in these types of entries, a top man is optional (depending upon circumstances), a harness is optional but the following are compulsary; portable gas monitor, first aid kit, means to summon emergency assistance, explosion protected lighting, and then the usual PPE.

The OGN, however is only a guidance note and only aimed at the Water Industry, however, many other organisations I have worked with adopt a similar approach for these low risk shallow chambers.

OGN is freely available on the Water UK Website.

If you need any more help - just drop me a line.

Helen










Admin  
#4 Posted : 06 August 2008 10:28:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Andrew paul Johnson
Helen,
Thanks for your help. have you got a link you could send me to this document?


Thanks


Andy
Admin  
#5 Posted : 06 August 2008 10:37:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Richard Altoft
are these chambers open at the top -- in effect is the worker stood in something 600 deep and bent over to work but mainly in the fresh air from his knees upwards ????????????
If so I doubt that the hazards of a confined space arise as the space must be BOTH enclosed or substantially so and be subject to foreseeable specified hazards such as flooding, lack of breathable air etc.
R
Admin  
#6 Posted : 06 August 2008 10:37:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Helen C
Andy - I have emailed you the document.

Not sure you how useful it will be but it'll be a good place to start.

Happy to chat over the phone if you need anything else.
Admin  
#7 Posted : 06 August 2008 10:42:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By graeme12345
Andrew this is not a confines space, your risk assessment needs to address,
1. slips / trip / falls around the excavation
2. assess the substances in use
3. any fire / ignition problems
4. is the excavation going to be left open/ fencing off or guarding
5. is it on a site (induction /site rules) or public highway or path (public/traffic/kids about)

these are the significant risks, you do not need to do a lot more
Admin  
#8 Posted : 06 August 2008 10:51:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Helen C
With the limited information given in Andy's first posting, there is no way we (as readers) know enough about his chambers to be able to give an opinion on whether they are confined spaces or not.

Andy's original question was for information on documents relating to this type of entry.
Admin  
#9 Posted : 06 August 2008 10:59:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Andrew paul Johnson
The chambers are 600mm x 600mm x 600mm made from a plastic chamber. The chamber is in place for jointing comms cables and the system is AIR tight. The operative is required to bend down in the pit, with the lid off, and joint cables. They carry gas monitors and work in pairs. The chambers are tested prior to entry. These chambers are position in a site next to a national Motorway (M1).
Admin  
#10 Posted : 07 August 2008 11:30:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By graeme12345
Helen it is called experiance, 600mm3 / joining cable ends together, seen it done before.

What "health & safety documetation" do you think you would require when you are bending down, joining two ends of a cable together in a 600mm depth excavation?

• Previous contents
• Any Residues
• Contamination from surrounding ground
• Control oxygen deficiency or enrichment
• Layout of the confined space
• Chemicals used for cleaning could be a hazard
• Sources of ignition
• Ingress of Substances

and there is more, but this is not a high risk operation so lets apply the required amount of thought to the job.

Admin  
#11 Posted : 07 August 2008 12:27:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By mark myles
Andrew,

I believe that you are looking for safety emergency procedures to cover the work.
Do you use a PTW system?
Do you use a Task based risk Assessment?
Do you have an emergency plan?
Are your personnel trained on the dangers of confined spaces?
Do you have a competent standby person?
Do you have people who can perform a safe rescue/first aid

As you have gas detection equipment you have given some hazards consideration. I would suggest that you carry out a Task Based Risk Assessment to identify what controls are required to bring the risks of the activity to ALARP. If you have a risk assessment and you want a second opinion then e-mail it through and I can give my thoughts.
Admin  
#12 Posted : 07 August 2008 15:02:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Helen C
Graeme,

Have a look at the document I suggested Andrew takes a look at. For the type of entry he suggests, the document simply recommends lowering a gas detector in before you enter, nothing complicated, nothing onerous, certainly nothing over the top. Just a pragmatic approach to carrying out a task - and if you read between the lines it almost hints that these types of areas are borderline confined spaces anyway.

From 'experience' I have seen chambers like these fill with carbon monoxide in seconds because someone at the top was using a cut off saw.

From experience I have seen people setting up a tripod and winch and using escape sets for 1m deep chambers!

From experience I have (and still do) inform many of my clients that their shallow pits are not confined spaces.

......and from experience, I never give definitive yes/no answers when I only know half the facts.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.