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Posted By SteveD-M
Been investigating a claim for a back injury..yes I know not the easiest to disprove.
During the investigation (I might add with very strong Union representation ,national and local reps) I was informed that there is a regulation banning the kneeling at a machine.
I should add at this stage this is just to change a cartridge and the task lasts about 90 seconds.
Now, when I stopped laughing (Yes I was the only one) and wiped the tears from my eyes. They were very adamant that it existed although not able to give me the reference. I have previously come across some US research on ergonomics but nothing specific.
Any pointers from your learned brains?
Steve
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Posted By Tabs
Nothing at all. Kneeling is kneeling. Shoe shops across the country are doing the same. Felters, carpet layers, roofers, carpenters, etc., all do it too.
If it is a regular task on an unsuitable surface knee pads should be provided.
(Knee pads would not be available if kneeling was banned -and the church would be upset too).
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Posted By AMelrose Agree with Tabs - not aware of any "ban" on kneeling at the workplace though obviously, repeated prolonged exposure could place the worker at risk from knee discomfort (speaking from experience after 2 operations on knee to repair cartilage damage!). If the task only takes 90 seconds and the worker doesn't have any previous medical problems that would limit their ability to kneel / get up afterwards, don't see why they couldn't perform the task! Did find this bit of research though (if you're looking for additional european paperwork!) http://www.occup-med.com/content/3/1/14
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Posted By SteveD-M
Thanks
Really helps.
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Posted By George S Darmanin
Agree with Tabs too. Maybe we should not change a flat tyre either:-)
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Posted By A Campbell
Think the kneeling thing evolved from the old 'housemaids knee' syndrome back in the victorian era!
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Posted By Richard Altoft
Tell them kneeling is covered by regulation - it is a control measure for working at heights
R
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Posted By bill reilly
Steve
Here is an extract from HSE/HSL study of baggage handlers at airports.Last sentence might be a clincher for you
The highest risk elements were associated with the in-hold tasks, especially the stacking of bags during the on-load operation. These tasks are conducted in confined spaces, often with only around one metre of headroom. Repetitive handling of bags while kneeling and with the hands at a distance from the low back were the main high risk elements. Opinion in the scientific literature is mixed on whether it is better to handle bags while standing stooped, sitting, or kneeling in such circumstances. HSL’s review suggests that handling while kneeling for short periods inside the hold is preferable.
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Posted By Tabs
.. and Slam Dunk ! :-)
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Posted By SteveD-M
Thanks Guys. It is helpfull to know that I am not a lone voice in the widerness.
I guess this just confirms my feeling, over the last couple of years I have found a resurgance of the '1970's' union rep.
Now before I get pounced upon by the good guys I know I may not have a representative sample.
It does link tho' to other threads and it does concern me as this could undermine the whole approach.
Although somtimes I do feel I'm having a groundhog day...week...month ...year..
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Posted By ColinPink
Hello
If you have some time to kill get hold of a copy of
The principles of good manualhandling: Achieving a consensus HSE research Report RR097.
This dicusses kneeling whilst working
Hope it helps
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Steve
In response to your request for pointers:
1. Check and state how you have carried out a thorough ergonomic assessment of risks to the employee before and after he/she carried out the work in question
2. It's neither your job to 'disprove' the cause of any injury referred to nor the job of a union rep to 'prove' it, but the job of orthopaedic and rheumatology specialists after thorough medical investigation.
3. Laughing in response to a claim about painful injury is unlikely to benefit anyone, least of all your own professional credibility.
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Posted By SteveD-M
Thanks guys for all the responses (well nearly all) I have the research report just looking for anything I may have missed.
Thanks
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Posted By Bob Thompson CMIOSH
Hi Steve correct no legislation regarding kneeling but we have a lot of evidence of the problems it can cause. we have home helps who have to kneel on a regular basis , you cant put someones socks and shoes on whilst standing up there have been a number of kneeling related problems dealt with by our occupational health department. The solution for us is simple include kneeling issues into our personal handling assessment , and provide foam gardening pads for those situations which need it.
regards Bob
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