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Posted By PBH
Hi folks,
Can someone inform me what the difference is between a fire warden and a fire marshal and the level of training required for both roles.
many thanks in anticipation
Paul
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Posted By Geoff W
If you google Fire Training you will get all the information you requier
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Posted By TBC
Here is a course as described by a Fire and Rescue service for Fire Warden/Marshall:
Be aware of key fire safety duties under the law
Be able to recognise habitual human behaviour in a fire situation
Know the typical role of a fire warden in relation to workplace fire safety
Be able to state the basic principles of risk assessment
Be aware of how to prevent fire or limit its impact
Be able to state the common modes of building evacuation
Recognise the need for fire drills and pre-planning for fire
Recognise active and passive fire safety features and facilities
Be able to identify and use a range of portable fire extinguishers.
I would agree the above for a Warden, but argue that a Marshall should only have a more dilute role:
Fire prevention awareness
Carry out duties to ensure a building is empty i.e floor sweep.
Roll call duties
Know about and how to use the correct fire extinguishers.
Two quite different roles, but again some may disagree.
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Posted By PBH
Many thanks Chaps,
Helped a lot.
Paul
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Posted By FAH09823
The actual terms themselves have no legal status nor definition.
Many of the training events provided, especially by F&R Services, are no more than their collective Fire Service interpretation of what they [the FS] think the roles should be.
In reality, such a blanket approach to training frequently neglets &/or fails to deal with the reality of the attendees' actual role in the workplace [see IOSH guidance on focussed training].
Just as importantly, any fire-fighting training activity tends to perpetuate the usual failure of almost everybody running out of the structure and leaving the individual in splendid isolation to attack the fire; & consequently with no support if they need it, nor any means of getting any until the firefighters arrive.
I've dealt with this on many previous occassions on this forum and my opinion has not changed at all.
Before anyone decides to deride me for my views, may I suggest that they read the RRFSO thoroughly first.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By PBH
Hi all,
Thanks for your input Frank. The situation is as follows:
I am HS Manager for contract caterer, a Client has told one of my unit managers that she has to be a fire warden for my Company's areas of responsibility e.g. kitchen, storage and dining areas etc.
My issues are as follows:
- The unit manager does not really want the responsibility, afterall she is a chef.
- Other than induction training and extinguisher awareness etc, my Company only has limited control over fire precautions, as this is contractually down to the client (although we do Fire RA's on our own areas and obviously swap info with the client).
- The client is refusing to give any additional training for this role e.g. in extinguisher use etc, etc.
- It goes against what i tell staff e.g.if there is a serious fire, get out intact and don't be a hero (heroine).
- In the event of a fire I have no problem with the Manager taking a role call as this is already part of the manager's JD.
- what happens if the dining area is full, is my 'warden' responsible for those others?
But the client is insistent!! Obviously don't want to upset the client, but would like to come back with a workable response.
Paul
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Posted By A Campbell
Paul,
If a person is a manager by virtue of employment contract, then will be required to undertake certain responsibilities to manage... including company h&s rules?
If paid as a chef... then has responsibilities associated with being employed as a chef!
Fire awareness and warden training is inexpensive... look up your local fire brigade for prices.
Unless you are looking at extending responsibilities... or agree with whoever is in control of the building overall, or defined area (i.e. dining area)then someone will require to take responsible of
1. raising the alarm
2. sweeping the area....not endangering themselves
3. Get out, stay out until the fire is out
4. Provide a system to account for employees (e.g. role call)
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Posted By PBH
Hi AC
The issue with us paying for the additional training is that I will have to justify the cost to the Board and if we train 1 unit manager we will have to train them all. With with around 150 unit managers this becomes a financial issue!
Also I believe the client (facilities Mgt Co.) is taking the Mick, as they have a dedicated team for the site.
I have no problem with the unit manager raising the alarm etc and undertaking a 'brief' sweep of our areas of responsibility, but would not wish her to become involved in fire fighting etc.
If the client wants to train and the manager is agreeable then no problem from HS side, but I would then have concerns of the managers contract of employment etc, as afterall she is our employee and not the clients.
Hope makes sense,
Probably not. Nevermind cider time now.
Paul
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Posted By FAH
Hi Paul
From your responses I suspect that your problems run far deeper than your original posts indicate.
Rather than having an almost certainly self-defeating "face-to-face" with any of the parties [client, chef, others etc], it would probably pay you to take a step back and deal with the apparently fundamental lack of understanding [or lack of desire to understand] of the various parties.
1 - It would appear that your Board has a different view of their liabilities & obligations to the one that you hold.
2 - It is possible that assumptions are being made as to the actual job description, job specification & contractual basis for employment - of the chef & local managers in particular - that are assumed to impose the authority that you need;
3 - The client on-site team are obviously trying to distance themselves from your contracted problem - you need to go through the actual contract to identify which party is responsible for what, when, where & how; and then apply the relevant h,s&f legislation.
If your organisation doesn't have the expertise for that in-house, you could do a lot worse than go to the IOSH Consultants Register.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By TBC
Just to clarify the point on 'recognition and use' of fire extinguishers. It will be pointed out during any training that the use of extinguishers will only be used as first aid fire fighting i.e computer, small bin fire or entrapment etc. something which can be 'knocked down' quickly. Not for someone to be left in isolation fighting a fire.
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Posted By Kevin Brown
Your unit manager is working in an environment that is inherently more hazardous than most, by virtue of being (a) redolent with sources of ignition and(b)full of combustible materials. All that's necessary to complete the fire triangle is oxygen and I'd bet there's a fair bit of that about too.
I think your manager has not only a duty to be able to handle a fire situation competently, but an urgent and pressing vested interest too.
I don't mean that he/she should be tackling major fires, heroically holding back the flames until the Brigade arrives. Just capable of identifying the risk and choosing the right appliance to manage that risk while he/she faciltates their, and others, escape from the building.
You need to also ask the following questions;
Does anyone else in this building have a better understanding of the risks than those intimately involved in preparing meals?
Are you going to wait for a Fire Warden from elsewhere to come to your workplace and tell you to make your escape, are you going to frazzle, or are you going to get out of harm's way, taking the diners with you?
If the latter, who would you put your reliance in?
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