Posted By Ian Futcher We have just had an injury reported where last Thursday the (silly?) girl in question (agency worker) stepped of her seat and held onto its back; it rotated and she crushed her hand against a workbench. It has resulted in her having very badly bruised fingers and she is awaiting checks for possible surgery... as a result, so far she has been off 4 days. I have informed the agency that although I am prepared to report this under RIDDOR (and I am ready to supply the agency with the report and investigation once it is completed), they will need to register the incident details with RIDDOR, since they have some of the personal details of the girl which I do not (age, address etc). They have curtly informed my "It's your job to do that; you are the effective employer". I fully understand that concept, and I have no beef with me reporting such an incident, but since I cannot do so sufficiently, surely they must bear some reporting responsibility also? What do you think? Ian

Posted By Bill01 If she is an Agency worker it is the Agency's responsibility to report, give them the details and let them get on with it.

Posted By Leslie Ian I have had SEVERAL dealings with agencies on this matter and several discusions with the HSE about it. Point 1) The Agency is their employer and therefore the duty to report under RIDDOR is theirs. (the HSE wont stop you also reporting it, but the duty is theirs (sorry to make the same point twice)). Point 2) (and a work of caution) The Agency may have inserted a clause in your contract stating you are to report notifiable incidences. Where this has happened in the past I have reminded the agency the H&S law is applicable here not contract law. Point 3) From person experience the agency (whether through ignorance or not) will do everything not to report the incident themselves. Following such an incident I fax / email the agency reminding them of their duty and how to report the incident and I keep a record of this advice. p.s. I previously worked in an Agency as a recruitment consultant. Trust this helps. Leslie

Posted By Ian Futcher Well, the nice lady on the other end of the phone at RIDDOR Reporting Centre did indeed support Leslie's comment. Even when I pushed, saying I didn't mind reporting but the information would be limited, she firmly stated it was the Agency responsibility. She commented that when a self-employed person was injured at a location then the person in control of the premises should report it, but that this case wasn't in that category. Apparently, since we are not the employer of the person, the relevant section is: "If you are in control of premises, you must report any work-related deaths and injuries to members of the public and self-employed people on your premises and reportable near miss incidents that occur on your premises". I've phoned the agency, and of course they are "surprised, since it says on the website that it's the responsibility of the person using the agency worker" (not as surprised as me, as I can't see it on there anywhere!), but I have passed on the injury report form with an email detailing the RIDDOR Centre advice, and told them it's over to them. Thanks for your input one and all; case solved. Ian

Posted By John Donaldson Looks like my posting crossed with Ian’s. In my case the reporting centre were happy to process my report but with the caveat they could not send me a copy. Does seem that as has been commented before the reporting centre is not consistent.

Posted By Ian Futcher Thanks for the last two observations. I am totally aware that there may be a claim and that our insurance would be the first port of call! I've recorded the incident in my internal system and we will do a full investigation to see if any systems were at fault. Luckily I have managed to get the agency to do the reporting; they have even given me the RIDDOR case ref number (so I'm ready for the Solicitor's letter!) Perhaps this is due to the relationship I have built up with the guy, that after his initial reluctance, he accepted my final expertise/advice and acted accordingly. I understand your comments about inconsistency of Incident Centre advice; I can only say I have always found them helpful, and the advice always has chimed with what I expected to have to do.. Ian

Posted By WilliamTell Totally agree with MickN, as the responsible person in control of the premises you report!! What is the issue, you can tick on the RIDDOR report that they are not your employee. I would also add that in future when you have silly? agencies workers, that the silly? employer gets contact details and other facts from the silly?agency worker when they commence work! Give me strength....

Posted By Ian Futcher WilliamTell Please read my responses near the beginning of the thread. I have no problem with reporting it... I just don't have the information that is required to report it. As a non-employer I think I am not allowed to ask the person's age (or perhaps an experienced HR person can clarify that), and we also only ask for emergency contact details, not the person's home address as we have no need for it (and again the HR professional may explain why we don't hold it). Please let me know if you can see in the RIDDOR Regs where it states something different from what I was advised by the Incident Centre, and I will endow you with all the strength you are requesting... Thanks Ian

Posted By Ian Futcher MickN Bless you for your kind words Ian

Posted By Bill01 Not to single this thread out but just a general observation. We routinely see numerous postings around RIDDOR on this forum....I particularly have a hard time figuring out this over willingness to report, yes do what the law requires but what else do you gain? Do your accident investigations and put in remedial measures where required, surely thats where the real H&S prevention lies. Yes RIDDOR provides data on trends etc etc but really how many of you use and incorporate it into your safety plans......your all going to say you do now!!

Posted By Bill01 Ian, I am a Safety Practitioner and have been for many many years. I am not in any way alluding that reportable accidents should not be reporting infact I am an eager advocate of doing the right thing. My question stems from the point that many people it would seem spend much time deliberating whether to report or not energy may be better spoent on other things. While accept your point on 'erring on the right side if applied across the safety spectrum in the workplace could it not be that energy, time and effort is spent on trying to gain that extra 10% when my point is may be it's better spent in other areas where thereturn might be better in terms of proventing accidents and protecting employees. It would be a wonderful utopian society if we all had the time and resources to fix all that needed fixing.

Posted By Ian Futcher WilliamTell With a name like that I thought you would be firing your bolts with a bit more accuracy... Firstly, I wonder if you have found the information I requested above? Perhaps not since I have not received any other communication from you... Secondly, the comment about "silly" was in brackets and with a question mark; I don't perform investigations into these sorts of incidents - the area/person's manager does. The bracketed comment was a personal observation about how sometimes people seem to do potentially silly things, and it was not the outcome of my investigation. Thirdly, if you read my other posts above, the initial investigation with witnesses (admittedly it doesn't say , but it was done by the manager) indicates that the incident was nothing to do with our systems or equipment, but it was the person's own actions that resulted in her injury. Of course, when the lady in question returns to work, we will investigate her report of the incident to obtain a full picture. Finally, "Words of wisdom"? - I'll happily accept words of wisdom from people I trust and who have demonstrated they have trustworthy traits and give trustworthy advice. Wishing you all the best Ian