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#1 Posted : 10 November 2008 19:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By cakey
Hello,

This may seem like there's an obvious answer to the following question but I'm sure we all know the reality.

What is the best method and type of protection for mechanics from exposure to engine oil?

Although the HSE promote the Avoid Protect and Check steps I am struggling to find definitive guidance.

The main challenges I have are:-

1. Finding suitable gloves that don't hinder dexterity; especially when carrying out detailed tasks.

2. If there is such a glove, encouraging/enforcing the use of them when for over 30 years the employees have not been.

I did a search on this and found nothing so if anybody has any pearls of wisdom on this please share.


Thank you

Cakey
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#2 Posted : 10 November 2008 19:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Which glove material is specified on the MSDSs?

Paul
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#3 Posted : 10 November 2008 19:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By cakey
Unfortunately the CHIP sheet only states 'suitable gloves'....typically non specific term.
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#4 Posted : 10 November 2008 19:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Oh dear, Cakey

Unfortunately, until someone gets prosecuted for deficient MSDSs like that, things won't improve.

You could try a glove manufacturer's site, such as this one: http://www.ansellpro.com...Center_askTheExperts.asp

Paul
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#5 Posted : 11 November 2008 07:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By MP Grayson
Mail incoming.

Crack on.
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#6 Posted : 11 November 2008 08:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bossa nova
Where's Chris Packham when you need him?
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#7 Posted : 11 November 2008 13:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Renny Thomson
Assuming PPE is a last resort..

I'd suggest non-latex for a start. Personally, I use touch-n-tuff nitrile gloves when working on vehicles including measuring components (reasonable dexterity required). It takes a little while to get used to wearing gloves, but it certainly reduces the contamination of hands, reduces minor cuts and means my hands are a lot cleaner looking than when I used to work on the tools without gloves LOL.
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#8 Posted : 11 November 2008 13:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By ianmilne69
Id go for the protective cream and then disposable gloves. Provide, instruct (and record) and then monitor.

Mech's are notorious for not wearing anything and Ive met several older mechies with skin problems and burns.

Mind you, when I worked in that industry (as a mere lad), we sold the original swarfega and it used to dry your skin and thinners was always used to remove paint as well....bless!
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#9 Posted : 11 November 2008 14:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bossa nova
Cream and gloves?
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#10 Posted : 11 November 2008 14:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Renny Thomson
For IanMilne,

sounds like your practices were like mine. I remember sand or "Mop" (oil absorbing granules) used to be the favoured ad-mix to Swarfega.

How did we survive?...
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#11 Posted : 11 November 2008 21:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By cakey
Thank you for the responses.

As bossa nova said, "Where's Mr. Packham?"
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#12 Posted : 12 November 2008 10:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Hossam
for the dilema of maintaining dexterity ..why not try half-finger glove style?..ok it is not best idea but reduces risk.

Hossam
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#13 Posted : 12 November 2008 10:03:00(UTC)
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#14 Posted : 12 November 2008 12:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
Chris was away for a couple of days - but he's back!!!

The correct glove material for engine oil is nitrile. Assuming that you need a glove that provides good dexterity then you are looking at a single use nitrile glove. However, it should be category III, e.g. tne KCL Dermatril P, or similar, not the category I for minimal risks which is what many of these single use nitrile gloves are.

I would never advocate barrier creams as protection since the evidence is overwhelmingly that they may not provide any real protection. Indeed some studies have shown increased skin uptake with the cream compared with bare skin. Even the HSE advise against using them for primary protection.

Creams should also not be used underneath occlusive gloves. These creams will contain preservatives (= biocides). With the skin in the hyperhydrated condition inside the glove there is an increased probability that the preservative, which will almost always be a sensitiser, will cause sensitisation and an allergic contact dermatitis.

If gloves do have to be worn for extended periods then separate cotton gloves should be worn underneath to prevent the build up of moisture that can lead to irritant contact dermatitis.

Chris

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#15 Posted : 12 November 2008 18:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By cakey
Thank you very much Chris. As always a thorough and definitive answer. Is there a particular cotton glove you could recommend?

Regards - Cakey
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#16 Posted : 12 November 2008 19:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
Any reasonable quality cotton glove should be suitable, but my preference would be for one where the seams are not pronounced and which fits the wearer well. It tends to be very much a question of personal preference.

The cotton gloves may need to be changed several times in a day. However,they can be rinsed, dried and re-used.

Incidentally, one tip. If dexterity is an issue, you can resolve this by simply cutting about 1 cm off the end of each finger of the cotton gloves.

Chris
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#17 Posted : 13 November 2008 21:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By cakey
Once again thank you Chris. You're a star.

Regards - Cakey
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#18 Posted : 14 November 2008 00:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Priest
The use of barrier creams prior to working is a general standard whilst carrying out the many tasks when working on motor vehicles.
Consulting the MSDS for the recommended hand/skin protection may not give you a precise answer because when engine oil is old/dirty and used it is more hazardous than when is was when new, for example it may become carcinogenic due to the by-product of combustion of modern fuels. Oily rag in the pocket comes to mind.

When working with old engine oil, as already mentioned, barrier creams will not be an effective primary protection measure. IMHO I have found that the best option is low protein and non-powdered latex gloves, and before I get shot down for suggestion the use of latex, NRL can be used as long as good practices and policies are adopted and regular skin examinations are in place to identify susceptible persons, and alternative protection (nitrile) is readily available for them. In my personal experiences mechanics are more likely to be sensitises to many of the chemicals and products that they use in the workshops on a daily basis and very few actually have problems with using NRL. When stripping down engines/gearboxes/final drives etc, the latex gloves gives the mechanics the dexterity they require for doing these tasks and is an excellent barrier against the oil, fuels, dirt, grime etc. I am not to sure if I would suggest the use of cotton gloves under latex or nitrile gloves, I can see the reasoning behind the concept, but because of the nature of the work disposable gloves do-not last long and are easily ripped, for example when changing a clutch a mechanic can don 3-4 pairs of gloves within 1-2 hours of that type of work, if a glove is damaged and the cotton glove gets contaminated with oil/fuels/grease etc the mechanic is likely to put another disposable glove over the top, and therefore keeping the contaminate near to the skin for longer periods of time. For the above reason I would defiantly not advise the half finger type glove already mentioned as protection against oil.

Back to the question,

(1) With appropriate control measures in place and regular skin examinations NRL is an ideal form of protection against oil’s, and gives the dexterity required for detailed tasks. Skin care systems must be used and staff trained in applying barrier and after care creams effectively. Personal hygiene is important and staff must wash their hands prior to eating food, you would be surprise to find the amount of mechanics eating their sandwiches with dirty hands.
(2) I bet the mechanics would not be allowed to work wearing trainers and a shell suit, the standard in workshop environments is steel toe-capped boots and overalls, so you should also make it your standard that when working with oils you insist on the wearing of the required protection as identified in the risk assessment. This can be achieved by adequate training, encouraging, supervision, and Management control. You will be pleasantly surprised to see the old school eventually adapting and following suit once most of the mechanics start to use disposable gloves.




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#19 Posted : 14 November 2008 09:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
In response to the previous posting:
1. Re barrier creams:- I quote from HSE’s publication: “Assessing and managing risks at work from skin exposure to chemical agents”, U.K.Health and Safety Executive, 2001, ISBN 0-7176-1826-9” – ““Pre-work creams cannot be relied upon for primary protection of the skin as there is no information on the rate of penetration of chemicals through creams. Also, people habitually miss areas of their exposed skin when applying creams and so complete skin cover cannot be guaranteed. It is not always obvious if the barrier has been removed, damaged or thinned.”
In the words of a leading dermatologist: “It is now generally accepted by the medical and legal professions that barrier creams have no protective function on the skin, and recent evidence would suggest that they may indeed facilitate penetration of the skin by irritants. Occasionally, dermatitis has even developed to the barrier cream itself.”(Prof. Burrows in Essentials of Industrial Dermatology). At a dermatology conference last year two papers were presented showing increased absorption of chemicals into the skin where a barrier cream had been applied compared with untreated skin.
I have a review of the evidence on these creams in the form of a Technical Bulletin. Normally we charge for this but I view of this thread I am prepared to e-mail it to anyone who contacts me direct.
2. Re gloves – I would never recommend natural rubber latex gloves for use with hydrocarbons. The glove may appear to be protecting but in reality the chemical may be migrating through the glove at a molecular level and emerging as a vapour on the inside. Whilst engine oil will take time to do this, some of the consituents in used engine oil may partition out and permeate very quickly. Note that I have no objection to natural rubber latex as such provided that any glove is of low free protein and unpowdered.
The selection of gloves for chemical protection is a complex topic. In “Protective Gloves for Occupational Use” (edited by Boman, Estlander, Wahlberg and Maibach, CRC Press, ISBN 0-8493-1558-1) this is dealt with in chapter 18 which runs to some 30 pages and still, in my view, leaves a great deal out (and I co-authored this chapter!).
3. Re cotton gloves – There is abundant evidence that wearing of occlusive gloves for an extended period can lead to irritant contact dermatitis due to the hyperhydration of the skin inside the gloves. This has been termed “hydration dermatitis” by Prof. Kligman in the USA. It is also covered in TRGS401 in Germany, where wearing of occlusive gloves is considered equivalent to wet work and, if the gloves have to be worn for more than 4 hours in total in an 8 hour shift special precautions have to be taken. Not only can dermatitis appear due to the occlusion, but the effect is that the skin’s barrier properties are impaired and any contamination inside the glove can cause increased damage (Effect of glove occlusion on human skin - Long-term experimental exposure, Ramsing DW, Agner T, Contact Dermatitis 1996, 34, 258-262) and (Rawson BV, Cocker et al.: “Internal Contamination of Gloves: Routes and Consequences”, Annals of Occupational Hygiene, 49, 6, 535-541, 2005). The study by Ramsing and Agner also showed how the use of cotton gloves underneath the occlusive glove significantly reduces the hyperhydration and hence the risk of dermatitis.
Provided that category III nitrile gloves (which will still provide adequate dexterity) are used, in the many years that I have been involved in the prevention of damage to health from skin exposure I have not found a problems such as those mentioned (although it will be a problem with the extremely thin category I gloves).
Chris
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#20 Posted : 16 November 2008 20:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By cakey
Thank you for the comprehensive responses.

Regards - Cakey
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#21 Posted : 17 November 2008 16:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By ianmilne69
Renny; your right about sand in the swarfega...did wonders for exfoliations.

Others; the barrier cream was mentioned to reduce any reaction with sweating under gloves and you will find that there are cases on the web somewhere. It also assists when washing off the dirt as it reduces dirt/oily 'stuff' becoming beded into the skin (mind you, they used to use sandwiches for that or wiping hands on leg of their boilersuits).

Others; the gloves always tear and sometimes mechies wore two or three pairs at once for that reason. Or you could wear it under the cloth ones that had ability to reduce oil contamination. See a PPE supplier for cost effective options.

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#22 Posted : 17 November 2008 16:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
With regard to creams underneath gloves keep in mind that almost all such creams will contain a 'preservative' to prevent bacteria spoiling the product. For preservative read 'biocide', i.e an irritant and sensitiser. These can, and do occasionally, cause skin allergies on unoccluded skin. However, given the reduction in skin barrier properties that will exist inside an occlusive glove, there is a significantly increased risk of an allergic reaction to such creams worn underneath.

With regard to the hyperhydration, this is not just sweat, but what is termed trans-epidermal water loss (TEWL), i.e. an invisible and constant loss of water from within the body through the skin. With skin in good condition the average person will lose between 500 and 700 ml of water every 24 hours. TEWL is an essential function as it ensures that the corneocytes in the stratum corneum can maintain an adequate moisture content so that the skin can function as a barrier.

In fact, you can put a gloved hand into a bucket of iced water to eliminate any sweating and will still see hyperhydration.

Chris
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#23 Posted : 17 November 2008 17:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By ianmilne69
And I forgot, there used to be a known reaction to the protein powders and / or maize starch they used to use to assist slipping gloves on.

And one of the moisturiser cream suppliers will give you some serious technical reasons why you should not used barrier cream but use their 'restorative' creams instead - if I'm not mistaken.

Lucky then that I dont work in that environment just now....but you can never tell in future.

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#24 Posted : 17 November 2008 18:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
As someone who for the past 30 years has spent their time attempting to help prevent damage to health from workplace skin exposure I would never allow my clients to use so-called barrier or protective cream to protect workers' skin from chemicals.

Barrier creams are legally cosmetics and should not be used as a form of personal protection.

The question of proteins and starch mentioned relates to the cheap, high free protein single use natural rubber gloves. The protein is attracted to the starch granules that are used due to the poor quality of the glove interior making it difficult to put the gloves on. On donning the glove the starch becomes airborne, is inhaled and triggers the allergy. Unpowedered, low free protein natural rubber latex gloves do not do this.

But latex is not the correct glove material for oils and greases and certainly not for some of the chemicals that a mechanic might encounter, e.g. brake fluid.

Chris

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#25 Posted : 05 December 2008 14:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By andrewcrown
Hi everyone.

Very interesting discussion... Coming from the world of pharmaceutical dermatology and in particular emollients, barrier creams, corticosteroids and allergy.

Can you help me here...I am a little confused about all this overwhelming evidence against barrier creams. Especially as one isn't mentioning any one in particular. Are all barrier creams are the same? Is Sudocrem the same as Metanium? I think its a bit unfair to lump them together. Can you direct me to the evidence?

Creams by their very nature need to have a preservative in them. If they didn't they would become infected. Paradoxically Emollient creams are a mainstay of NHS eczema treatment and are often used under occlusive dressing/bandaging, even in the most severe atopic dermatitis cases, with exceptionally low risks of contact dermatitis.

Naturally the world of medicine and OH can collide so no offence!! And I'm prepared to be corrected (:

Best wishes

A
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#26 Posted : 05 December 2008 15:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham
Andrew

If you let me have your e-mail I will send you my Technical Bulletin on barrier creams and a few other comments from conversations with dermatologists and toxicologists.

Chris
(chris.packham@enviroderm.co.uk)
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