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Do you still have to prepare a formal construction phase plan if the works are under 30 days etc?
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Posted By Mark1983
Our company has recently won a number of small council contracts which will take several months, but individually are expected to take no more than 2 weeks, 1 or 2 just a days work even.
The clients CDMC has requested a construction phase plan from us, but is it a requirement when the works are under 30 days / 500 person days? Obviously the CDM regs apply to all projects regardless of the length we know that much, but in that case does that also mean there must always be a CDMC for all non domestic projects?
GEtting confused, thanks in advance!!
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Posted By Rodger Alan Ker
It is with some regret that I must state thay you appear to be taking a naarow minded and blinkered view of your requirements.
Regardless of what you call it, or how you produce it, how do you intend to safely manage any construction project without a "plan?"
Also remember Hazards and Risks do not increase with the size or length of a construction project. you are just as likely, and in some cases more likely, to kill or seriously injure someone on a short project as a long one, and it is more likely to occur without "planning".
My suggestion would be (and I do this myself) get on with it, prepare it and ensure it is complied with.
It can't do any harm and can only be of benefit.
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Posted By Simon Priest
Hi Mark,
My first thought is:
If there is a CDM Co-ordinator on the project, then it would have to be a CDM Notifiable project and therefore a CPP is required.
Simon
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Posted By Mark1983
Many thanks for your responses, the trouble with typing out question is that people can misunderstand eachother though. I don't see that the 'blinkered' and 'narrow minded' comments were necessary. I'm simply asking the question to be fully informed.
We recognise that planning work of any duration is essential, however up until now we have always done it through detailed method statements and risk assessments.
The CPP formal document we normally only produce if required by the CDMC but in this case i don't even see why he's appointed.
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Posted By Ian Mitchell
Hi Mark
It would sound like they are calling all the minor works a 'package' in which case they are over the threshold and a CDMC is required.
Your plan should encompass the 'package' of works and not be 'one plan : one element' as this would be impossible!
One plan for the lot, with appropriate task - specific RAMS, referenced in the overall plan, but produced as required.
Regards
Ian
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Mark - be instructed by your Client not this "CDM-C".
If you weren't appointed as a Principal Contractor, then there is no Project to Notify, no CPP, no CDM-C to take heed of!
You have been appointed - the Client should therefore already be well satisfied as to your competency.
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Posted By Rodger Alan Ker
I apologise if you took the view that the term "narrow minded and blinkered" was meant as a personal reference.
What I simply meant was that this posting, like many others ask a question that is simply "the regulations say this or the regulations say that".
the rest of my comments were positive and to look "outside the box" can only be of benefit to all parties.
As you state in your response you prepare method statements and risk assessments, job is almost done.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Ian, many a program of minor work is wrapped together to form a contractual package, but I have to question the validity, and more importantly the value in referencing this as a Notifiable Project; where it is impossible to be Site Specific and where the management arrangements, welfare requirements and conceivably the Site specific risks will be so highly variable.
How would a "Principal Contractor" even begin to write an overarching CPP for that?
From my experience and discussion with HSE, they would favour the pragmatic approach - CDM is after all about adding value?
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
I think that we get tied up too strongly with the phrase Construction Phase Plan. All work involving construction activities should be adequately planned and where you have a series of minor works orders I would strongly suggest that some form of management plan for the overall works with supplementary appendices to deal with the local specifics, this maay be as simple as an marginally extended job order sheet used to allocate work to individual operatives.
Bob
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Posted By Mark1983
Thankyou for your comments, the problem we have is that these individual sites are at different locations and embrace different works. The 1st takes 4hours to hang a door, the 2nd is 2 weeks for extensive guttering works, others are just redocorations - all under 30 days individually, yet the CDMC is trying to make them under the title of one contact taking 30 weeks therefore reportable.
But its not cos they're seperate jobs of different natures in different parts of the city. They are simply putting all the projects down on one F10 and submitting it, surely its not reportable as they are seperate short contracts??
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Has this CDM-C offered up the relevant pre-construction Information to allow you to develop a CPP then? What time has been given to you to develop this?
I am with you Mark - it is a nonsense to F10 this work, however you may have to refer back to your contract award to see on what basis you were appointed - main conractor, contractor or principal contractor. If the print says PC then you may have to go with the flow?
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Posted By Mark1983
Many thanks Ron,
Yes i spoek with the CDMC this morning and just agreed to go with it, but told him we wouldn't be going over the top as we didn't feel all of the CDM regs applied to these projects.
Thanks again :)
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Do you still have to prepare a formal construction phase plan if the works are under 30 days etc?
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