Posted By Gilly
Hi - I am checking to see that I'm not missing something here.....you lot will know! I have been asked to come and double check the use of a small bandsaw by children aged 7-11 at an after school kids club. They are cutting small pieces of soft wood, fully supervised. Several helpers have expressed concerns at the use of it at all and the leader has demonstrated with the use of her own finger that it does not cut flesh.....she was just a little sore after demonstrating so many times! This is obviously a very 'low level' bandsaw but as I know virtually nothing about them I wanted to double check before the assessment. I have read and am following the HSE's 'safety in the use of narrow bandsaws' to put some written instructions in place. Anything else that springs to mind? Thanks in advance.

Gilly

Posted By Gilly
Yes - I know.....not something I would have suggested! I am going along tonight to observe it so will see how it cuts.

Posted By Jim Walker
Don't forget wood dust issues

Posted By Gilly
Thanks - wood dust noted (although as pondered before, how on earth it cuts anything is beyond me!)

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Gilly

Bandsaws have a continuous loop blade that runs in one direction only over a set of drive wheels within the machine. If you have one of these then do remove it. The adult would have had a nicely and jaggedly sliced finger if you have one of these types though.

The scroll saw type shown is the most likely piece of equipment that you have. This has a reciprocating, up and down action over a very short stroke, hence the teeth will grip the flesh but the length of travel is actually too short to tear the flesh. I think 7 is a little young but I certainly used one at the age of 11, many years ago. It is great for model boat and aircraft building:-)

Bob

Posted By Jim Walker
Scroll saws have been around for donkeys years and yes they cut wood and yes its difficult to get a serious wound from them.

No miracle, Kirsty - just a lack of understanding & knowledge on your part.

Posted By Brian Hagyard
Is this really a band saw as we would understand it? I don't think it will be quite the same as a butcher or joiner would use.

i seam to remember something similar on sale in toy shops a few years ago when my son was a little younger. The kit had a "band saw" and "lathe" as part of the kit. They were designed to work on balsa wood. I never actually bought the set but it was aimed at under 12's if i remember correctly.

Brian

Posted By D H
All good responses - but I would be more concerned about the fact that we show young people that to check if a blade is sharp, we put our fingers on it?

Dave

Posted By h&s newgirl
Hi there is guidance for this from CLEAPPS on the use of this type of equipment for primary school age children. L111 Tools and Techniques in primary DT is a guide we use. this guide doesn't cover band saws but gives you good advice.

Also you can contact CLEAPPS direct for advice over the phone for specifics.
L

Posted By Graham Bullough
I guess a lot of people will look at this thread because of its heading which induces horrendous thoughts of children using bandsaws with high speed metal blades capable of instantly sawing off fingers or hands.

As other responders have pointed out, Gilly describes a vibratory or scroll saw. This type of saw is used by countless numbers of pupils in secondary school technology workshops. The blade involved is effectively a vertical wire which is coated with abrasive material and vibrates up and down through a small distance. A common make of such machines is Hegner. When sheets of material such as plywood, MDF or plastic are placed against the blade, its vibratory action abrades rather than rips the material. This explains why the blades are relatively safe and will graze skin rather than cut it if sustained accidental contact occurs.

I haven’t come across any of my employer’s primary schools using such saws, but would have no qualms if I did. The minimal risk of injury from such machines should be put in context with the use of scissors by primary age children.

However, as Jim Walker rightly points out, don’t forget to deal with the fine dust which scroll saws, by their nature, produce. The Hegner saws I see in secondary schools tend to incorporate small bellows which blow dust away from the cutting area. Although this enables users to see the cutting line on whatever material they are cutting to shape, it does not remove the dust and probably makes very fine dust airborne. Therefore, my standard advice is that such saws be fitted with dust extraction which effectively removes the dust at source. Among other things this should avoid causing or exacerbating respiratory conditions such as asthma in children and others.

Another point: Mention of placing fingers against scroll saw blades prompts me to comment that some users of lapidary saws like to demonstrate how safe their machine blades are. Such blades comprise smooth metal discs which rotate at high speed on horizontal spindles. The peripheries of such blades are coated in industrial diamonds which are so small that they are difficult to see. Thus, though such a blade can readily cut (abrade rather than rip) through stone and brick, it has no adverse effect on skin placed against it.

Posted By Gilly
Thank you all so much - this is extremely helpful and just what is required.

Gilly

Posted By D H
Good post John - but my argument is showing young people that a blade does not cut flesh by putting their fingers onto a blade.
How much information is given, and how much will a seven year old take in.
How many of these people will lose parts of their fingers because of this demonstration?

Dave

Posted By Ian Dale
Similar vibrating saw heads are used in hospital plaster rooms to remove casts. The vibrating blade only cuts hard material and has no effect on the underlying skin, although patients can find this hard to believe!
Ian Dale

Posted By ACoz2000
Perhaps a suggestion of using a prop instead of a real finger would be a good idea for you, keep some frozen sausages around and use them to demonstrate the inability to cause serious damage to human flesh.

If you use the finger method kids will immitate it and push the boundaries within which the saw safety mechanism operates and end up really cutting themselves after trying hard enough...

Posted By Kirsty Davies2
Ian,

You are talking about oscillating electric plaster saws. They use the same principle as I mentioned in my earlier post. Obviously, they will not have ‘interlocks’ as seen in huge industrial saws.

However, please do note that these saws do cut bones, tuned and tense skin, tendons, cartilage& fingernails etc. I hope no one tries them on their fingers or the palm of their hands to test them.

Kirsty

Posted By Jim Walker
This has very little to do with the original post, but yesterday I managed to stick my finger on the moving blade of my bandsaw at home.
I've been using the damn thing for years without incident.
I was very very lucky it did not bite me!!

Do as I say, not as I do (smiles sheepishly)

Posted By Sally
sounds like a victory for sensible health and safety!