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#1 Posted : 02 December 2008 15:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michael Carr Hi all a quick question about Xmas trees. We are planning on having a real Xmas tree in our building. Does it need to be treated for fire resistance. The supplier says they don't do it as it will dry out the needles etc and make them a bigger fire hazard. Many thanks Mike
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#2 Posted : 02 December 2008 15:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Warren Fothergill I think this is a case of doing something that is suitable and sufficient. What is the risk - will you be exposing it to 'lights' with an electrical energy source? Are there other ignition sources? Basic fire risk assessment if that. Remember only significant hazards need to be documented. If you have good controls on your electricity etc. eg. RCD's, have periodic PAT Testing on the lights, and regular checks on the fixed wiring, would suggest that perhaps your okay without documenting, however if other hazards are known then the risk increases? Other solutions, just add it to the fire risk assessment as an addendum, ensuring your staff are informed etc., if there is a need to utilise specific FFE on the tree (tree may be a solid, but the fire would be triggered by electrics!). Regards Warren
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#3 Posted : 02 December 2008 15:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze I'm going to stick my neck out on this one. It probably doesn't need treating as fire retardant chemicals are likely to kill the tree. Keep the tree well watered - a tree that is alive and transpiring is a lot harder to burn than a dead one all dried out. Think of them like cut flowers if it helps. Switch the electrics off while you're watering so you don't mix the two or you'll be in for a shock. Oh and you're meant to water the root ball or base of the tree (to this end make sure it's standing in a bucket) - not the leaves (as one occasionally hears about in the Darwin Awards). Most of all (and at the risk of being self defeating) stick by the suppliers instructions on this one - they are the experts, and don't go by what you read on some safety discussion forum. We are after all not Christmas tree experts.
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#4 Posted : 02 December 2008 16:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By A Campbell Hmmmm I wonder if we shall see headlines like 'council bans xmas trees from buildings' I would hope not!
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#5 Posted : 02 December 2008 16:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sally Just so long as we don't see a headline saying 'council building burnt to ground by flaming christmas trees' Totally agree with previous comments, the only thing I would add it to take care with the locating of it so it is not blocking fire exit(s)
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#6 Posted : 02 December 2008 16:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alan Hoskins At a local group meeting recently we were shown a video clip of a Christmas tree going up in flames - it was almost instantaneous. Shown by our local Fire Offcier. I don't have a link to it unfortunately... The important thing then, (if you use an untreated tree) is to avoid all sources of ignition. Alan
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#7 Posted : 02 December 2008 16:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By A Campbell Alan, Was that an artificial tree in the american clip.... doubt they have fire rating??
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#8 Posted : 02 December 2008 17:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By MP I hope we will be treating all the paper in the offices with some sort of fire supressant
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#9 Posted : 02 December 2008 20:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke Hi Folks The video clip is from the National Institute of Standards and Technology. A dry scotch pine tree in a living room. I have the clip but its 4megs. Regards Linda
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#10 Posted : 03 December 2008 09:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alan Hoskins Thanks Linda, a bit large to email then... Yes Tony, a real pine tree. Alan
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#11 Posted : 03 December 2008 09:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Go for low voltage lighting, 12volt LED for preference, and the fire risks are greatly reduced. Bob
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#12 Posted : 03 December 2008 09:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kirsty Davies2 Can't blame media now. It's us!!!
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#13 Posted : 03 December 2008 11:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Kirsty, not sure what you mean there - no one has banned anything, just stated what may be expected and given sensible advice accordingly. If it were the much trumpeted "common sense" then why did Michael need to ask the question? Linda, from what you describe it sounds more like kindling than a christmas tree. I'm not surprised it went up! (Goes off wondering why shops sell these stands that do not contain water. They're not fit for purpose - unless you're looking for a brazier to hold your burning tree.)
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#14 Posted : 03 December 2008 11:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jane Blunt I have seen the video of the dry Christmas tree going up in smoke as well. There is another video elsewhere of attempting to do the same thing to a well-watered christmas tree - nothing happened. See: http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/...y-seasonal/treefire.shtm As mentioned by Jon, if you keep the tree well watered its fire risk diminishes dramatically. Jane
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#15 Posted : 03 December 2008 13:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By MP ....but the possibility for electrocution may rise?
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#16 Posted : 03 December 2008 13:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs So long as you keep the water in the bucket and the transformer out of the bucket you should be okay. LED's on 12v is a good option. With transformer off the floor preferably. The video shows why it is good to at least think of these things :-) I haven't seen a workplace extinguisher that would cope with that tree fire after about 10 seconds.
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#17 Posted : 03 December 2008 13:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter F What do you do for your tree at home? does your house go on fire every year, because the tree is untreated and the needles have fell off? Do you suffer electric shocks?
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#18 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs When I have a real tree (occasionally) I keep it watered because I hate needle drop, actually. What do you do?
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#19 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter F I get the wife to water it just in case!
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#20 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tabs Ah, delegation ... allows one the joy of "told you so" when it goes wrong ;-)
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#21 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter F Actually, I carry out a manual handling assessment for carrying the tree into the house and lifting it into the pot. I then carry out a working at height assessment to enable me to decorate it. I also carry out ladder training for the wife to put the star on top. after that I call in an approved electrician (17th Edition) to check the socket and make recommendations. Plug in the RCD unit I have the lights PAT tested. I ensure that the tree is treated so it is fire retardant. I carry out a fire risk assessment and carry out fire evacuation procedures with the whole family. I have the fire extinguishers tested (CO2) I have the presents treated in case they go on fire. I carry out a confined space assessment and post it to Santa to enable him to come down the chimney. I also carryout a manual handling assessment and working at height for carrying parcels and being on the roof. After that I carry out another manual handling assessment to carry the tree out as i have now missed Christmas because I spent so much time assessing.
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#22 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Simon Priest Peter F, Brilliant! Simon
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#23 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alan Hoskins A chimney? How quaint... We have not received any Christmas presents since converting to gas! Alan
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#24 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter F I don't believe You as I know that Santa is magic.
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#25 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Donaldson Peter, In the spirit of this post, mines a scotch!!! You forgot your Environmental Impact Assessment and then to do a Best Practicable Means Assessment for the disposal of the tree. Have a good Xmas. John
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#26 Posted : 03 December 2008 14:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter F I was going to add that in June or July when I decide to move it from the front garden, because my wife is moaning about it.
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