Posted By Kirsty Davies2
Peter,

In Safety world, the recognition of 18001 is much greater than 'BSC's sword of honour". So I would rather take the 18001 route. (but the choice is yours)

Kirsty

Posted By Jay Joshi
It is essential to recognise the difference between various safety "Star" audit systems, BS OHSAS 18001 and the BSC Sword of Honour (and ROSPA Awards).

In BS OHSAS 18001, you either meet a "requirement" or you do not based on the clauses and guidance (OHSAS 18002). There is no scoring its status ( maturity, procedures, processes, KPI's inputs, outputs) and effectiveness( (to what extent is what is required tobe done actually being done)

The star rating systems (BSC. ROSPA and NOSA-of South Africa)provide scoring.


The various awards, from both BSC and ROSPA ( and the very badly publicised suite of National Business Awards ( the so called business Oscars) requires additional proof on specific aspects of health, afety & well-being that is judged to a set of pre-determined criteria. Therefore, the kudos/perceived status of these awards is much higher to those who participate, because the high level awards are given to the so called best. Companies that participate in the top awards such as the BSC Sword of Honour tend to go beyond the minimum requirements of standards such as BS OHSAS 18001 etc.

Most companies that enter the BSC Sword of Honour do so for the prestige aspect of the award. The catch is that one cannot enter for the sword of honour without being awarded BSC 5 stars in its audit.

From personal experience, I am aware that the BSC 5 Star Audit system has undergone a major reviews since early 2000 and is now a part of BSC's quality systems certification (ISO 9001:2000)

Kirsty, this is not having a go at you, but please try not to comment without knowing the details and differences.

Posted By Jim Walker
We hold 9001,14001 & 18001 certs because we would not get any business otherwise.
We expect our subbies to do the same to even be considered for tenders.

Anyone citing 5 star and or sword would be told "very nice, but back to the real world do you have........"

Incidentally we have got the 5 star for past 10-15 years, its just a tick box exercise. I thought you got the sword for paying for a bigger table at the awards ceremony ;-))

Posted By Jim Walker
We are a commercial company, we live or die by our profits.
18001 ensures we get contracts. 5 star & or sword just cost money. It might be easy way out (I'd debate that) its just how the world works. We need value for money.

Posted By Jay Joshi


Yes, BS OHSAS 18001 has a wider acceptance beyond UK, but it is not an ISO i.e. International Standard, unlike ISO 9001 & ISO 14001, although it lends itself to integration and is alignment.

I have not stated which one to go for, just highlighted the differences, which surely there are.

Organisations that apply for the "Sword of Honour" do so for the perceived (or otherwise) status, in their judgement rightly so, but individuals have their own views. Most of these organisations already have OHSAS 18001 certification!


For example, many high risk chemical manufacturing organisations, being members of the American Chemistry Council are mandatory now required to have third party certification to the Responsible Care Management System (RCMS). The UK equivalent is thee Chemical Industries Association --who have not yet made it mandatory to have third party RCMS certification for compliance to its "Responsible Care programme"). A competent safety professional in the field of health and safety management systems will be able to identify that the RCMS goes way beyond OHSAS 18001 -and OHSAS 18001 is not a requirement.

It is one thing to have OHSAS 18001 due to supply chain requirements or otherwise, quite another when it comes to comparison with other management systems that include an element of scoring and better benchmarking criteria!


Refer to:-
http://www.bsi-global.co...ds-and-Schemes/RC-14001/


I have nothing against BS OHSAS 18001, but it is not an international standard in context of ISO. Otherwise there would be pressure on ISO to establish a technical committee --attempts to do so have failed in 1996 and 2000.

Those who are not aware, OHSAS 18001 was "created" by certification bodies when consensus for a certification standard was not reached in the BSI HS/1 technical committee prior to publication of BS 8800:1996. It is only very recent that OHSAS 18001 has been accredited by UKAS and a few other accreditation bodies. It was only last year that BSI HS/1 technical committee endorsed OHSAS 18001 as a British Standard and BS 8800:2004 will be revised and published as BS 18004 by the end of this year or early next year.

Posted By Peter F
Thanks Jay,

I knew that, although it is believed that it will become ISO in the next year or so.

I was just trying to gauge what I consider like minded people i.e. health and safety bods thought of the two.

Posted By Peter F
That would be cheating, i now take it that you do not know what you are talking about. But Thanks for the effort of writing.

Posted By Kirsty Davies2
“ OHSAS 18001 is the internationally recognized assessment specification for occupational health and safety management systems. It was developed by a selection of leading trade bodies, international standards and certification bodies to address a gap where no third-party certifiable international standard exists.”

The above quote is taken from the following BSI website;

http://www.bsi-global.co...d-Schemes/BSOHSAS-18001/

Again, I would like to clear here that we are discussing ‘Star’ audits compared to OHSAS 18001. (We are not arguing whether 18001 is an international standard or not).

Also it’s pointless to compare 18001(H&S) to 14001 (environmental) & 9001 (quality) standards. I would love to know a ‘an international standard ’ which is better than 18001 or HSG65 .

I agree with Jim in stating that ‘18001 ensures we get contract'.

Posted By Kirsty Davies2
Jay - Read the fourth paragraph of my previous post.

Posted By Ian G Hutchings
Hi Peter

This ones gone off on one a bit!

Back to your question. I would only advise the 18001 path it it can be proven to add value to your organisation, over and above the 5 star requirements as some of these may be repeated as part of 18001, but yes, as indicated in the many threads they are different animals.

Personally I think anything that reduces the risk of injury is a good thing, whether it is BSC, RoSPA, DNV or whatever. The true question therefore is does it reduce operational risk to staff? Does it add commercial value (win more contractors or differentiate us from competition)? Better defence if someone is hurt or gets killed?

I work with clients who have it and those that don't. It all appears to depend on how it is done and who certifies the system. I believe that some certification companies can be an easier option than others, strangely they also seem to cost less.

I believe that there are more efficient ways time can be spent to combat on the job safety, but also recognise we have to have structure for it all to come together.

No easier answer but I am happy to give a more considered opinion via email if you can let me know more about the business.


All the best

Ian

Posted By Saz G
Once again, a number of members have managed to do nothing more than inflate their already-overblown-ego's and provide 'zero' helpful information for the original poster!

Some of you are obviously far more obsessed with blowing your own trumpets about your credentials/post nom's/university educations/salaries and present positions than actually providing any helpful (accurate) advice.

All this constant need to out-do the other members of the forum does is confuse those who are genuinely trying to obtain advice and guidance from their peers.

Why can't any of you just offer a personal opinion and some helpful information to the thread starters instead of quoting regs/international standards and other useless drivel and undermining those who are all supposedly working to the common goal of IOSH??

It would have been far better to praise anyone who has ANY form of robust and continually improving Health and Safety Management System in place, rather than try to get one up on your fellow members. I despair sometimes with the self-obsession of some members on here and wonder how you all have so much time on your hands to perpetuate these pointless arguments?

Peter F, you are to be commended and I wish you every success with whichever path you choose, the important thing is, that you are striving to improve your systems and keep people safe at work.

Posted By IOSH Moderator
And on that note, I think Peter F has his answer.

Thread locked under AUG 1.

Jon