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#1 Posted : 13 January 2009 22:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By SNS Evening All, I've had a look through the history and searched for LTI definitions but can't seem to find much in the way of definitive statements. How long does an IP need to be either off the job or away from work to be counted as an LTI? Is it towards the 'all time not working', i.e. getting first aid and going back to work? or only RIDDOR 3 days +? or something in between? Or is it decided once actual numbers are known and a desired rate has been stated? Thanks in advance S
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#2 Posted : 14 January 2009 08:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Youel The moment a person stops work it is a lost time and £ event to a business and the individual concerned as what an individual does reflects on how a business performs - The areas that you add into the maths equation depends on how far, deep and wide you want to go! I cost the very basic completion of an accident form alone at a minimum of £50 per form. This cost does not allow many factors to be considered Real lost time costs can be very shocking
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#3 Posted : 14 January 2009 08:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte Our definition of lost time injury is: "injured person is still unfit for normal duties on the third consecutive day after the day of the injury or has suffer a major injury as defined in RIDDOR." Hope this helps Des
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#4 Posted : 14 January 2009 08:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Mac Carthy I've counted it as each full day the person is not able to work, this would include weekends if they work overtime at the weekend i.e. engineers, gardeners etc. I know other people who count it as every hour, it depends how much time you wish to spend on capturing data. In short lost time from production is every minute/hour away from a workstation. Lost time (H&S) each full day after the incident has occurred; I don't include the day of the incident, just like RIDDOR. More interestingly, do you use the 100,000 or 200,000 figure for man-hours? What’s important is what you want to achieve? Promote a positive culture or spend all your efforts on reactive measures? Good luck
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#5 Posted : 14 January 2009 08:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By A Campbell If you are calculating around the RIDDOR criteria how would you be able to give the board a true reflection of man hours and calculate cost to the business for the 3 days prior to deciding on an LTA? We calculate from the day after a person is away from the workplace onwards so capture the 3 days also.
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#6 Posted : 14 January 2009 17:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By SNS Thanks for the replies, I think that, unless directed otherwise by HR, I will try to go for using full days following incidents. Trying to promote a healthy culture and capture useful information. Rgds, S
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#7 Posted : 14 January 2009 20:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Let's be controversial: For me, lost time starts from the start of the next SCHEDULED work period. (note, "scheduled" before the incident. Can't change the rules post facto) Injured Friday, back Monday. Overtime scheduled on the weekend ? Lost time. Not scheduled ? No time lost. Production on short time ? (2 or 3 scheduled work days per week ?) Days scheduled as "non working" don't count. So, now we get to RIDDOR. Reduced work week - Wed-Thurs-Fri. Injury happens on Thursday. IP back to work following Wednesday. i.e. one scheduled work day, the Friday, lost. RIDDOR ? Anomaly : injury happens at clocking-on time plus 1 minute. Absent for the rest of that day. (D1) IP returns at one minute before clocking-off time D4. RIDDOR ? Discuss. And while I had to calculate rates per million and per 200 000 hours I only counted days lost. It's a great job if you don't get drunk and lose it. Merv
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#8 Posted : 14 January 2009 21:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Suffolkman Hi I just spent 12 years working for a US corporation who use the same OSHA definitions worldwide for LTI ( which are not the same as RIDDOR)but probably better define LTI ( lost workday) Lost Workday : A workday is considered a lost day if an employee is disabled from performing all work on that day. A lost workday makes a case recordable(OSHA) and LTI. • Example: An employee is injured and is unable to return to work for the remainder of the day of the injury, but returns the following day. This is not a LTI case. • Example: An employee is injured on Friday and is unable to work until Monday. The employee is not scheduled to work again until Monday. This is not a LTI case, unless you receive information from a physician or other licensed health care professional indicating that the employee was unable to perform his normal duties during the weekend. If so, you must record the injury or illness as a lost-workday case. Don't know if that helps
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#9 Posted : 14 January 2009 21:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete48 Lets remember that RIDDOR is used in the UK to collect and collate data on defined major injuries and over three day injuries (amongst other stuff)and not lost time incidents. They are two different sets of criteria used for different reasons. Thus any incident can be an LTI; an LTI and RIDDOR reportable but never RIDDOR reportable unless it is also an LTI. Hey, that South African pinotage is good brain food eh? I have always worked with similar definitions to those outlined by Merv.
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#10 Posted : 14 January 2009 21:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By tb SNS Apart from the RIDDOR reports which are 3 days after the incident, I find it easier to calculate the time lost as 1/2 to 3 days. Apart from knowing the exact number of days lost due to injury, we can then see how many first aid cases, medical treatment cases, LTIs and RIDDORS we have within the business and can target any problem areas that may be arising. Hope it helps. Tony
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#11 Posted : 15 January 2009 16:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Gus, correct me if I'm wrong, but the doctor's opinion about fitness over the weekend is only applicable if the IP would normally be on-call. Or, perhaps, occupying a post which could lead to them being called in at any time. Like H&S coordinators.(24/7/365) Merv
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