Posted By Karl 78 Hello, I'm hoping someone might be able to differentiate between the two above. If a company had a small suite of method statements detailing how Job A is completed from step 1 - step 20, is that sufficient? There seems to be a suggestion that an accompanying procedures manual is in place in many organisations. I think they are basically talking about the same thing. Very minor issue but needs to be resolved here. Any thoughts?

Posted By SteveD-M Karl So long as the steps in Job A match the risk assessment then yes they are the same. Be aware tho' that any changes made during a site specific risk assessment will mean updating the procedure.

Posted By Andy Brazier I'm not sure I agree with everything that is said above. I don't think MHSW74 requires method statements, although they could be the way you choose to document a safe system of work and/or communicate information to employees. I think there is potentially a significant overlap between method statements and procedures. I would say procedures are typically used for tasks that are expected to be repeated. They can apply to system management tasks (e.g. how to perform a risk assessment) through to the shop floor (how to start a pump). I would be wary of saying a procedure is a guide as if the task is safety critical you don't want to leave the method used open to the individual. Method statements tend to be used for one-off type tasks. However, you quickly realise that the same task is often performed many times, but maybe in a different location. So you may have a set of 'generic method statements' that you can pull out each time the task is performed. However, you need to make sure they are reviewed before each use in case the exact circumstances on the day are different to those covered. I would not say a risk assessment can be used instead of a procedure or method statement. That is simply not the purpose of the assessment. Having said all that, I do think people use some of this terminology interchangeable, and the details of what they do differs greatly.

Posted By Andy Brazier Question seems to be a bit different! You are quite right to question when you need to provide procedures and what depth they need to go to. I believe there is a range of option between providing full step-by-step at one end of the spectrum through to providing nothing and relying on on-the-job training and competency management. The actual requirement depends on how complex the task is, how frequently someone performs the task and the consequences of getting it wrong. However, it is not a simple formula. If someone does a job frequently they will not read a procedure, no matter how complex it is or the consequence of getting it wrong. In some circumstances it may look like they are reading the procedure (because they have been made to) but they will not be actively reading as they will already know what it says. Also, it is no good saying people must read a procedure because the potential consequences of getting wrong are dire if the people themselves perceive the risk to be much lower. The main question to ask yourself is, when and why do you want people to read a procedure? If it is primarily for training that means its format is different than if it is to be used by competent people. On the other hand if you do want it used on the job by competent people you want to minimise detail (so that people do not think it is beneath them) and it needs to be a format that is easy for them to use (no good being lots of pages of text for most real workplace situations). You may find the following useful from HSE http://www.hse.gov.uk/hu...ctors/comah/procinfo.pdf

Posted By Mogcat Having read the posts on Method Statements Vs Procedures, what are your thoughts about Combining Method Statements with RA ?

Posted By Mogcat Thanks Ray, regarding a combined RA and Method Statement surely saves time. By completing a method statement and detailing the hazards and control measures surely this negates the need to complete an additional RA. I would appreciate your view on this.

Posted By Mogcat Job safety Analysis ? can you please explain in more detail, or even send me an example

Posted By justgossip Procedure vs method, the difference here, TO excavate safely. the Procedure informs Senior management, management supervisor foreman of the actions they should complete for a safe excavation. method statement tells my operative how they should do the task safely garry