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Posted By David c Wilson
Could anyone advise what measures their companies take regarding persons using their own vehicles on company business?
I would be interested especially in the insurance aspect, as most peoples insurance only covers S,D,P and to and from work?
Many thanks in anticipation.
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Posted By A Campbell
David,
We have it our written policy, although we do not ask for proof of checking on a regular basis.
Is also in their interest as they would want full insurance payout in the event of a claim.
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Posted By David Bannister
David, A multi-level approach may be adopted:
Driving Policy: should specify that business use insurance must be obtained by any employee using their own vehicle for work. Of course this must be clearly communicated to the affected employees, along with an explanation of why, with sign-off for receipt
Procedure: ensure that each authorised driver using their own vehicle produces evidence of appropriate insurance at least annually (at the same time as they produce their license)
Commitment: expenses claim forms can be amended to include a wording that forces the employee to confirm that appropriate insurance is in place, above their signature.
Reward: the mileage rate is usually set to include the additional cost of business use insurance. Some employers who would normally have provided a company car will make an additional payment in lieu. This also should compensate for the additional cost of insurance.
Hope this helps.
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Posted By SteveD-M
In another life ...It was part of the annual review that anyone who drove on company business would complete a checklist that confirmed insurance details, licence etc and when due or completed defensive driver training.
Those that had points on their licence would have their licence check on a more regular basis - the more the points the more frequent the check...
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Posted By Scotty
Hi David
We also have a written policy/guidance on this matter. Our Director has to see proof of licence, MOT and class 1 business insurance every year of all drivers (lucky him!)
For lease cars, the organisation takes responsibility for maintenance, checks etc etc. Otherwise it's the individuals responsibility for this.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Posted By David c Wilson
Many thanks, that is very helpful and proves you can get a straight answer on this forum!
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Posted By andy.c.66
This thread interests me! could a private vehicle used on company business be classed as work equipment and therefore covered by PUWER,would the company then be obliged to check for a valid MOT etc
andy
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Posted By A Campbell
Again... as part of the driving policy....
Comes under The Road Traffic Act 1988 and Road Traffic (Vehicle Testing) Act 1999.
Not heard of a case under H&S law where people using their own vehicle for work purposes have no MOT or insurance to date as the above legislation covers it for any use.
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Posted By Steve Cartwright
There was a case a couple of years ago where a company were fined approx £80,000.00 because one of their employees was driving on company business without a valid driving licence. I've also heard of sales reps losing their licences and not informing employer and carry on driving.
We do as others have stated,
check insurance covers business use,
mot if applicable,
valid driving licence,
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Posted By TDsafety
Having seen all this. I often wonder if any comoanes have completed an RA for the driving to and from locations in private vehilces. By the way driving a private vehicle with a car allowance makes the car a PUWER item i believe.
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Posted By Steve Cartwright
What's a comoanes?
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Posted By John Richards
It's covered by PUWER even if no allowance is paid.
So are personally owned tools if used for work.
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Posted By DavidW
I would guess comones = companies?
On the question of whether car are covered under PUWER, I don't think they are? Can't remember the details as it was a while ago I looked at it and it was also discussed on these forums. If I remember correctly they were not considered under PUWER becasue the Road Traffic Act and Construction and Use Regs already covered most aspects of vehicle use. However, as the interest in work related road accidents increases this may change.
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Posted By Stockman
We do paper licence and insurance checks before they can use the company vehicles or claim mileage for their own vehicles , plus check periodically and provide Driver Safety training
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Posted By TDsafety
Yes sorry for the typo. Companies. I need a computer driving license not a car one
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Posted By John Richards
It says on the HSE website that the PUWER covers vehicles used for work.
"What equipment is covered by the Regulations?
Generally, any equipment which is used by an employee at work is covered, for example hammers, knives, ladders, drilling machines, power presses, circular saws, photocopiers, lifting equipment (including lifts), dumper trucks and motor vehicles. Similarly, if you allow employees to provide their own equipment, it too will be covered by PUWER and you will need to make sure it complies"
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Posted By SteveD-M
I had a case in South Africa where the company changed it's company car policy and put the onus on the individual without putting the necessary checks in place. Resulted in 20% increase in company car accidents as they didn't bother with MOT's etc.
Senior Management behaviour (cost saving) without thinking through the real cost...
Company had to go back to the old system on my recommendation and that did save them money...
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Posted By David c Wilson
I have heard that it is best to do licence checks via the DVLA? This is due to some employees getting duplicate licences! Does anyone know the cost of this service?
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Posted By A Campbell
We use a 3rd part company that carries out checks via DVLA and was via our HR dept.
Strange thing was that I recently had mine done... came back as 'no information available'. I contacted DVLA myself and hey presto... no problems!
I think there is also a service you can sign up to with DVLA web based checking system?
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Posted By Martin Atkins
We are currently carrying out licence checking using a 3rd party linked to the Insurance company, via a mandate allowing the third party to check the licence details direct with DVLA. There is also a possibility the Insurance company will contribute towards the cost (approx £10) per licence. So well worth doing this with the insurance companies involvement/assistance.
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Posted By Stuart Bower
Private cars are NOT covered by PUWER whether or not mileage allowances are paid.
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Posted By Phil Rose
First things first, please disregard the 'advice' that private vehicles come under PUWER. Para 62 of HSE L22 makes this very plain as follows:
Motor vehicles which are not privately owned fall within the scope of PUWER 98. However, the more specific road traffic legislation will take precedence when these vehicles are used on public roads or in a public place. When such vehicles are used off the public highway and the road traffic law does not apply, for example on a dock road, PUWER 98 and the HSW Act would normally take precedence unless relevant local by-laws are in operation – for example, road traffic by-laws at some airports. Car drivers should hold a Department for Transport driving licence and cars should be maintained to the normal standards required for use on the public highway, ie they should have an MOT certificate, where necessary, or be maintained to equivalent standards where statutory testing is not a legal requirement.
To deal with Dave's question, there are a number of things that employers can and should do. Clearly any private vehicle used for work should have the correct insurance i.e. 'business cover'. We have tackled this in a number of ways.
1. It is included in our Occupational Road Risk Policy
2. It is included in our travel claim policy and our travel claim form has a declaration for employees to sign that they have business cover, and that the car has an MOT (if necessary) and is maintained.
3. We make an annual check of the above and keep photocopies on personal file
4. We issue regular reminders to staff using the e mail system (I appreciate that this is not always possible in all organisations)
Hope this helps
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Posted By Nigel Richards
David,
we have a policy that places the responsibility on line managers to check and verify driving licence, insurance, service/mot and breakdown cover for all grey fleet drivers.
This is after the driver has jumped through the hoops of explaining why a pool or hire car is not acceptable for use. This may seem a little 'heavy' but we have better control over pool/company and hire cars so we try to make this the first-best option.
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Posted By Andy Stokes
I have an interesting alternative being proposed, though I and my Fleet Manager are not happy. Apparently we may be able to 'offer' or just plain cover employees own 'casual business use' on our insurance. I have grave concerns, but it appears the Insurance and Finance departments are happy and it keeps the non-field based staff happy. There has been some abuse of this in the past, so our insurers have indicated that 'casual' means less than 1000 miles in a 12 month period.
For me its just making things more complicated to appease those people who affronted that they might not be able to hop in their own car and get us to pay the bill if they hit anything.
Anyone else operate this bizarre system?
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Posted By Andrea Porter
where staff have to use their own vehicle on company business - when a pool vehicle is not available or they can't borrow a company vehicle - they are covered on our company insurance. We do insist that staff who may use a pool vehicle - and therefore may have to use their own at some point if a pool vehicle isn't available - provide full details of their vehicle along with up to date service and MOT history. This has been set up by our finance department so I feel it must be the best option for us. I have to say staff don't have use their own vehicles very often as we would bring in a hire car for them unless the journey was very short.
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Posted By Leemond
Hi everyone,
i am a fleet manager with my company and have recently been made aware that various departments have without my knowledge been using their own cars for business travel.
although i am fully aware they require class 1 business insurance for this use, has anyone got any suggestions on how to approach this problem bearing in mind it may also affect senior management within the company?
my stance on this is as a driver you have the responsibility to ensure your covered, however in the event of an accident how would this impact on me or the company? would proof of a certificate be enough although we all know insurance can be cancelled at any time and certificates are not always surrendered, or would some form of disclaimer be better? i would feel more comfortable with a global email at departmental manager level informing them all of the risk and their obligations as a driver. how do i address this has anyone got any links to point me in the right direction? template letters/emails etc any help would be very welcome.
Lee
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Posted By Jay Joshi
Para 62 of L 22, PUWER Regs, ACoP & Guidance covering the subject of motor vehicles states that:-
Non-privately owned fall within the scope of PUWER 98.
more specific road traffic legislation takes precedence when these vehicles are used on public roads or in a public place.
road traffic law does not apply, when such vehicles are used off the public highway, the examples given is that for a dock road, PUWER 98 and the HSW Act would normally take precedence unless relevant local by-laws are in operation - for example, road traffic by-laws at some airports.
Car drivers should hold a Department for Transport driving licence and cars should be maintained to the normal standards required for use on the public highway, ie they should have an MOT certificate, where necessary, or be maintained to equivalent standards where statutory testing is not a legal requirement.
To summarise, for privately owned vehicles, do not confuse the insurance requirements with PUWER requirements.
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Posted By ipaterson
Contact your car insurance company and get them to add business use to your insurance certificate. Many insurers don't charge extra for this - depends on who you use.
If you do not do this and you were to be in an accident on work business it would be easy for your insurer to refuse to cover your claim.
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