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Posted By Mogcat
If I stipulate a certain activity under a PTW will take 1 week to complete, but the personnel carrying out the work leave the workplace every evening. Do i need to raise a separate PTW for each day they arrive/leave the workplace.
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Posted By chrisroyal
The PTW form that I use has a space that allows for "renewal" of the PTW at the start of each new shift, but only for 3 subsequent shifts, after which a new PTW is required. We work 24 hours, in 12-hour shifts, so that means the PTW is only valid for four shifts, (two days) maximum. However, if (based on the risk assessment) the activity is found to carry a particularly high level of risk, I may request a new PTW for each shift, and put a line though the "renewal" section to prevent its use. It all depends on the activity and the results of the risk assessment.
Generally speaking, if I see any danger of the PTW becoming a "tick-box" exercise I'll take action to concentrate people's minds on it (starting with simply removing the renewal section). I'm sure there are other ways to approach it, but this way works for us. It could be that a PTW valid for 1 week is ok for your particular work activity. Your call, really.
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Posted By Xiao Bao
Permit To Work valid for 1 week is simply too risky. You should at least let the permit to valid on 1 shift or max 1 day!
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Posted By Merv Newman
Normally, for me, PTW is good for one shift. Can be renewed but initial permit and any renewals can only be signed off at the job site AFTER verification that conditions continue to permit safe working.
Merv
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
The PTW could be any time frame. How long it should be depends on the severity of the risks, the level of supervision and the controls that are implemented and defined in the PTW. For example, the job could be left overnight provided that the person supervising the work ensures it is safe to leave the work unfinished and checks it safe to resume working the next day.
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Posted By Ian Futcher
Traditionally a PtW covers only one shift.
As new supervision arrives for the next shift, a hand-over takes place and status of open permits should be discussed and new PtWs issued. Not issuing a new PtW opens the danger of change of work condition without the supervisor knowing what is going on; eventually the item can be forgotten that it is in PtW state and never resolved. (Flixborough - sic)
Ian
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Posted By mike morrell
There is no right or wrong answer to the question of validity periods but there is a very real risk that with permits that are renewed there is a possibilty of the “same again “ mentality forgetting the day to day or shift to shift changes that frequently affect the safety of a job. All too often the initial good assessment work carried out at the time of first issue is not repeated when the permit is to be renewed and very often the work site is not even revisited and the permit is re-authorised in an office. It is indeed unusual for something not to change on a day to day basis if only the weather , and ignore this at your peril.
Arguably the only benefit of the renewable permit is that it saves some time in filling in the form each time. Unfortunately most paper based permits are poorly structured in that there is limited scope for amendment for a change of status or control measure. Electronic systems if properly designed can be much better in this respect.
Remembering that the use of a permit to work should be restricted to those tasks that present more significant risks and not used like confetti for trivial work as is often the case I have always reminded those persons who issue permits to view the document as a detailed safety contract between two or more parties and as something that may be either their best defence or the best prosecution evident in the case of an accident
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