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Posted By Safe System
When do you feel that a generic/semi generic assessment would be suitable?
For example - if your 80% of your daily business is digging drainage trenches.. would a comprehensive risk assessment that covers everything from buried services to potential asphyxiation be sufficient? or is it RP to carry out 10 RAs a day?
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Posted By Lee Mac
Generic format is often fine as a starter, but they need to made specific for the task and location.
In other words to make it suitable and sufficient, factors differ depending on location, be that utilities, the soil conditions, depths, excavator types (hitch types), close proximity to general public, water tables etc. etc. therefore all of the factors need to be taken into account to make the assessments applicable for the job and location.
I have in my experience seen many generic risk assessments still alive and well on sites but IMO these are only a paperwork exercise and not implemented. Any half decent Inspector would have a field day with generic RAs.
Lee
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Posted By Safe System
Agreed. Very time consuming for that specific example but not as time consuming as 15 days in court!
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Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
As long as they are updated as work or environment changes, or following an accident then they are fine. We had the same RA for garden digging and it never altered until one day a guy was digging and got sucked into a buried well,we had to get a dumper truck to pull him out sharpish and he verily soiled himself, as did the rest of us on site. It was scary, and even though it was rare we had to consider that it could happen and we had to have an emergency plan for any other such occasion which was added onto the RA. Such is the manner of RA's they only really mean anything if they have been updated.
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Posted By Safe System
thinking about it..
A large section of the variables are restricted i.e. company X only uses X type of Hitch etc.., ALL ground is CAT Detected prior to ANY digging.
Weather is always an unpredicatble one.. but would semi generic risk assessments that covered most, if not, all variables be acceptable..
It is a lot of paperwork, but i think it would minimize human error, especially when the safety guy goes on a holiday ;)
IT IS JUST A QUICK REACTIVE THOUGHT.. (before i get the 3rd degree on that suggestion!)
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Posted By Safe System
by the way - this post has come about as the company i joined has been using generic assessments for a long time successfully but i am updating everyone to incorporate new risks etc..
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Posted By Lee Mac
I would think not.
But...., we can all be proved wrong.
SS, you would need to elaborate on the tasks, locations etc. before a concise answer can be provided.
Lee
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Safe System: Following your example, the generic risk assessment and procedures could include a requirement for a Permit to Work/Permit to Dig/Confined Spaces System to be applied locally.
R/A = Global; PTWs = Local?
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Posted By Crim
I provide generic assessments to site and require them to be made site/task specific before starting work. The guys on site have to read them and qualify they are correct by signing and dating.
The generic side means some time saved and, lets face, it some people still don't know where to start a risk assessment so it helps.
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Posted By Safe System
Crim - do you provide a blank risk assessment along with the generic, or do you attach a simple blank page for on site variables such as weather, that the SM can fill in?
I am trying to keep these as effective yet simple for the SM as possible.
Ron - not a bad idea to have the permit system..
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Posted By Safe System
Just so you know :- here is an example of a PART of the generic excavation risk assessment:
Hazard 3:
Persons falling into exposed Excavations
Control Measure:
If there is any risk of injury from tripping/falling into an excavation then the excavation will be suitably protected to prevent people accessing that area (i.e. crowd barriers/temp fencing - at least 1.2 meters from the edge if Reasonably Practicable or guard rails attached to the trench box/shoring – the top guard rails should be at least 950mm above standing level, with a gap no more than 470mm between toe board and upper guard rail.). Tool Box talks to be conducted warning of Excavation Risks.
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Posted By Crim
Safe system, I provide a risk assessment based on the HSE guide to risk assessment, 5 steps etc. and complete as much as I can, it's then up to the site ops to add or remove anything relevant or not. I also provide blank risk assessment forms, same as HSE sample risk assessment forms. See the HSE website for examples of risk assessment.
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Posted By Safe System
Crim - good idea.. but how would that stand in the eyes of the HSE?
are the ops trained to carry out a risk assessment? would it deemed as negligent on your part?
(the above are merely questions and not accusations)
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Posted By Chris Pope
Nothing wrong with a generic provided in the case of digging you also have a permit to work that ensures you deal with specific on site problems such as local traffic routes, overheads and buried services
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Posted By Crim
I believe I am merely providing assistance to those who need the risk assessment as, in theory, I have the necessary knowledge and experience of what may be required whereby the guys on the ground can do the work but do not necessarily know how to satisfy the requirements of H & S. Also confident that if signed/dated etc. the assessment will be suitable and sufficient.
HSE Inspectors have been satisfied when visiting sites in the past.
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