Posted By Ron Hunter Michelle, I can empathise with the position you find yourself in - I know the pressures of impending redundancy from times past. You have a chance though to defend your position - not always the case in redundancy situations. A possible angle for you might be the recent prosecution of the external consultant adviser working in the quarry industry (discussed just the other week on this forum) and the statement from related news articles attributed to the HSE regarding employers placing to much reliance on external consultants. Whilst the statement is of concern to our occupation as a whole, it may assist your personal circumstances?

Posted By PMW Usually when a company is making redundancies, it enters into a 'consultation period' one of the reasons is so that members of staff may be interviewed and be given the opportunity to put forward their views/argument etc. I'm not aware that Michelle has been requested to do so in writing. I think she is looking to pull together a valid defense/arguement, should she be given this chance. Best of luck Michelle on a positive outcome!

Posted By Michelle Hi again thanks for the advice so far keep it coming, yes the meeting i am attending tomorrow is part of the consultation process and it was requested on paper. The corporate manslaughter argument is a good one and the idea of setting up as en external consultant is too. I don't know how hard it will be to do that but I shall definately look into it. At the moment any suggestions are welcome. I just had a look on the careers forum and am pretty depressed by how many people are looking for similar work.

Posted By Arran Linton - Smith This recent case might be useful. See:http://www.shponline.co.uk/article.asp?pagename=incourt&article_id=8507

Posted By David Passmore Michelle, I can fully sympathise with your current situation. I was employed as a Health & Safety Officer in a large manufacturing plant, however, due to severe economic pressures, the company had to restructure with significant downsizing being part of the survival plan. In my situation, the 'pool for redundancy selection' was one from one, therefore I was somewhat isolated. I went through a protracted consultation period (I would deliberately leave questions to be answered after each consultation - difficult ones at that) - as I was on 'gardening leave' and still getting paid, although that was scant consolation in relation to losing my job. Whatever you do - YOU MUST APPEAL against the decision to make you redundant. This gives you the opportunity to put into writing all of your concerns and the potential implications should a failure in health & safety occur after your departure. I quoted relevant excerpts from the MHSAW and other situations that could potentially arise which could leave the company in a precarious situation. I was told that due to the numerous redundancies at the site, my role had become "diminished', however, I argued that although there were fewer people working on site, the buildings, machines, processes etc still posed a risk to the remaining staff and these would still need to be controlled. Following my unsuccessful appeal (as I expected) and a multi page letter accompanying it, it was over 2 weeks before my redundancy was confirmed. The redundancy confirmation letter had obviously been written by a solicitor - which I still retain. Due to the enhanced money on offer and the signing of a compromise agreement, I was unable to pursue any legal redress as I suspect that the old get out clause of "the needs of the business" would probably negate any tribunal claim. Unfortunately, the company which employed nearly 700 people when I first started now has a headcount of around 80 with a bleak outlook. Michelle, I feel that you might just have to accept your situation but stand your ground and go out fighting. Best of luck - but retain all of your documentation (including H&S) as your former colleagues just might need your 'assistance' in the future. DP

Posted By Paul Phillips From what you have said, I guess your company are not closing the whole site, so as pointed out before there is still a need for some-one in your position or at least covering HSE, a legal requirement as already stated. It's worth pointing out that people are not made redundant, the position is, people are the unfortunate casualties of the process. It may be worth pointing out why you were given the role in the first place, if it the reason for potential redundacy just cost find out how much they were paying out before, then do some simple economics to see what the difference is to them. Assuming your HSE status is showing continuous improvement it is also worth pointing this out, also worth considering in your in-house knowledge of your business, this is not usually replaceable by engaging consultants, who may not have similar information. Your aim should be to convince them that their best course of action is to keep you on. I have been made redundant twice before, and managed to find an alternative job before leaving, However the employment market is very tight as we all know so this currently could prove difficult. Working as a consultant from fresh also means that you have to find clients who need your services and will pay on a regular timely basis, also a problem at the moment. You need to make your job your own, avoid negativity, be positive about what you can deliver and make sure your current employer knows it. I wish you the best of luck and hope it turns out OK for you

Posted By Steph Hi Michelle Can I add something - about 'competency'? The company I now work for has created the position of H&S Manager, having (for more than 6 years) employed the services of a consultancy - a very major name. The reason for creating the H&S post was they recognised that they needed more. The consultancy was not providing bespoke documents and support - everything was quite generic. This consultancy was not cheap; £4400 for 6 x 1 day sessions, on top of legal updates and a help-line - quite inadequate. A major part of your 'defense' is your detailed knowledge and experience of the company business - this will not necessarily be available from a consultant. If your employer wants a consultancy to create bespoke systems, etc, they need to be aware that they themselves will have to work along-side the consultant (for at least some of the time in a training and info scenario) and also check these documents for accuracy - the directors are the responsible person. Can't delegate responsibility. As is often the case where money is a major issue, some companies will go for the cheapest quote, regardless of the service offered and the level of competency. Is it an idea to get some prices not just for a consultancy to do what you currently do, but also the minimum, and also half way between the 2? And then add on Directors costs. Hope this helps, best wishes, Stephanie

Posted By justgossip I always remind my boss, that what ever thoughts he may have about safety. The only thing that stands between him and a jail sentenance is ME. he's got house insurance, car insurance and I am the get out of jail insurance. its a simple message but he does understand it. Garry

Posted By David Passmore Gus I cannot see anything in Michelle's postings that could compromise the relationship with her employer. Sure, I can understand a situation where someone has slagged off their employer on some social networking site, but if someone is silly enough to do that by also posting their full name and photograph, I have no sympathy with them if their employer (prospective or current) discovers traits that they would prefer not to have within their workplace. Michelle is merely asking fellow posters for advice from others who have been in a similar situation - no different from seeking advice from a solicitor or union representative in a redundancy situation. By law, Michelle will have been informed in writing for the reasoning of her provisional selection for redundancy. She therefore must defend the action based on the reasons given and following advice from her own representatives (if any) and by assistance and support from others employed in the same profession, she will hopefully be able to provide a robust defence to her redundancy. DP